CityRPG: A lengthy, detailed criticism, and what I think we can do to fix it.

Author Topic: CityRPG: A lengthy, detailed criticism, and what I think we can do to fix it.  (Read 1695 times)

Personal anecdote: I've been playing Blockland for a long time now and I've witnessed CityRPG's birth and I've witnessed it's growth. Over the years I've had good and bad experiences regarding the novelty game-mode. After a play-through on iPhone's CityRPG, where I made somewhere close to $10M in-game cash and purchased a 128x256 lot on which I began building probably the biggest building on the entire server, I came to a pretty depressing conclusion which made me realize how incredibly flawed CityRPG is at a fundamental level.

Note: This is all personal opinion so don't crucify me if you find something you disagree with. The idea here is to discuss innovation, not necessarily to bash on Iban's invention. While I respect the original inventor, I'd prefer it if people didn't use this topic to relentlessly defend the obsolete nature of current CityRPG's. If you enjoy them as they are, Visolator is coming out with a very well maintained re-coded version of Iban's original dream and I wish him the best of luck.

But for now I wanna talk about CityRPG's from a gameplay perspective.

Reforming CityRPG
The basic perspective.

In it's current state CityRPG consists of a relatively small linear gameplay goal. You progress through an education system by paying money, which you then use education points to progress through a job system (also by paying money) and in the end the idea is to achieve the highest income possible. This is essentially what all player related stats boil down to: gaining income. What do you do with income? Earn money. What do you do with money? Not much. At the end of the day, people build their wealth up and up and they have absolutely nothing to spend it on besides guns (resulting in huge RDM'ing sprees that just usually do nothing constructive at all except inconvenience other players), property (the amount of property a player can own is usually limited), and food (which requires a negligible amount of money either way and there is basically 0 consequence for not eating)

The problem with playing CityRPG is that you are not playing CityRPG. You are endlessly waiting to play CityRPG, and the wait never ends, because there is no conceivable form of gameplay. CityRPG's are often populated solely because you need to be waiting in-server to progress at any given time. People won't leave because they've already spent an enormous amount of time waiting and they're waiting to finally start having fun on the server, but it never truly comes. It's like an abusive relationship. It's emotional torture.

In it's current state, a player in the CityRPG has two end games:
- Buying a stuffload of weapons and killing a bunch of usually defenseless people.
- Buying a stuffload of property and building random stuff.
So, in conclusion, CityRPG is basically an over glorified delayed version of the two most incredibly basic Blockland gamemodes. Freebuilds and deathmatches, just extremely limited.

So what does CityRPG lack that makes a gamemode successful? A goal.
All successful gamemodes have some sort of structured goal or story.
- A deathmatch is simple. Kill other players, gain the most points in a certain time frame.
- Original game modes, such as Solar Apocalypse, also have clear goals. Manage your resources, and the last man standing wins.
- Another example is pizza delivery. Deliver the most pizzas as fast as possible to beat all your opponents.
- Even controversial gamemodes like Jail RP, usually ridden with design flaws, has the ultimate goal of escaping the prison.
- Role-plays such as Family RP and Military RP are a bit open ended, with goals generally drawn up by the host and players within. However, even though CityRPG has 'role playing game' in the title, there is very often little to no RP structure. Most of the role-playable subjects in the game are handled by the gamemode instead of the players.

Instead of roleplaying or working towards some sort of common goal, players are just left with the very basic foundations of an authoritarian freebuild. You just have to do a bunch of mundane bullstuff before you're allowed to build anything. And you have to dodge the bullets of some RDM'ing richard-wad who used the cash he earned (by idling overnight) to buy a bunch of assault rifles despite already being in the server jail 15 times for the exact same thing.

Giving the players something to do.

Any kind of decent game mode gives the player an engaging task which is preferably dynamic. In a deathmatch you are given a range of weapons and you have to blow stuff up. In solar apocalypse you have to look for resources. In order to progress in CityRPG, you have to do a 'job', most of which require you sitting around waiting for your next paycheck. The best way to earn money in CityRPG is to remember to leave your account idling overnight, which is a design flaw. Some servers elected to just simply ban idling instead of addressing the inherent flaws that cause it. Sitting around does not make for a fun game-mode.

Another personal anecdote: I can't remember who was the host, but I recall a certain CityRPG where the host attempted to combat this by causing your in-come to decrease over time, and could only be restored by doing a small mundane task that was somewhat related to that job. I was a lawyer on this server, and in order to retain my income, I would walk around the city, looking for people who had demerits, and I would pay 1 of their demerits for $1, making my in-come full for at-least 3 ticks. This isn't really fun. It's just boring maintenance.

So here's my idea. Every job must have a unique engaging task for the player to accomplish. These tasks will begin somewhere close to 9AM game time and end somewhere close to 5PM game time. At the end of the week (or day, doesn't matter), you receive a paycheck which is based on your base-income (relating to the job) but is heavily modified by the amount of tasks you have done over that period of time, and slightly modified by the economy. This doesn't necessarily mean this is the ONLY way to make money, however, as certain jobs can have their own unique side tasks and quests. However, that is essentially the idea, no more idling, the player must work through the day to maintain his income. If a player fails to do any tasks over an extended period of time, he may be suspended from pay or fired completely, forcing them to restart their career path.

So, what do I mean by tasks? Well I have a couple ideas. Here are some examples of jobs with an idea of what their tasks may include.
Builder - Must repair roads which develop pot-holes, may have to build small template builds around the city in empty lots. If there are multiple builders working on a project, all players earn a teamwork bonus. This may encourage builders to come together to form construction companies.
Demolition - Must tear down abandoned lots and damaged property. (I'll touch on both abandoned lots and template builds later)
Fire-fighter - Occasional fires will break out (only on abandoned lots or pre-determined lots) which they must put out. If there are no fire-fighters online, no fires can start.
Doctor - Has to work in a hospital, this one is a bit complicated and probably has an element of fantasy. It involves bots... every once in a while a patient is admitted to the ER with a random scenario concerning their visit. Doctor must determine the right diagnosis from a certain set of options. (kinda like a quiz, I could think of a few ways to make this less mundane than it sounds). Also, my idea is that when a player dies, they can either pay a size-able sum of money to jump right back into the game (free if there are no doctors online) or spend a small amount of time in the hospital. Doctors will receive huge bonuses for treating players.
Police Officer - Has to patrol certain areas of the town, may have to respond to some small NPC/Bot based situations.
Truck driver - Drives a truck between warehouse and store, delivering stock.
Pizza delivery - Drives a car between pizzahut and homes delivering pizza. Basically the same thing as truck driver but on a smaller scale with less pre-requisites.
Street cleaner - Cleans up trash he finds around the city, cutting grass and polishing streets.
Scientist - Collect samples from nearby plants, identifying them. Obviously this one is just an example of how far we could take the task system.

All these ideas are up to suggestion and debate, I understand some of this might be an unrealistic. But the idea is to give players something to do. Recently I joined a CityRPG and one of the jobs was 'Greedygoy', which was literally earning a large amount of money to sit around and be Jewish. I'm not kidding. This is unacceptable game design. In most CityRPG's we have a labor system which isn't ENTIRELY flawed. Cutting trees and mining rock is more engaging than sitting at home doing nothing. But it's boring, repetitive, and just generally awful... I have a few ideas to combat this with things such as 'safety inspectors', prospectors, mining equipment. Same for lumberjacking (logging machinery) and even fishing (instead of clicking on 'lake bricks' you have to drive a fishing boat/trawlers out into the ocean.) Obviously the idea isn't to complicate things further than they need to be, but rather make it somewhat dynamic. Even with these things, labor would probably still be the most mundane job, but would be much more dynamic and much more engaging.

The point here is Jobs are essentially the life-blood of the CityRPG gamemode model, so we ought to take them into greater consideration. Rather than jobs just simply existing as an initial investment and an income, they should exist as committed mini-games, different for each job.

forget bounty hunters. If you want the power of arrest, go become a cop. Bounty hunting is a stupid broken concept that has no place in CityRPG. I feel like bounties in general were just hamfisted into CityRPG with no forethought just so someone could say "i make new feature!!!!". Nobody even uses bounties. My opinion anyway.

Education

I don't want to completely get rid of the education system, but I find the current accepted system gimmicky as forget. Go toss a bunch of hard earned cash into a machine, wait 2 minutes, and BOOM you're prepared to be a doctor. I'm not saying you have to go to a lego university and sit through in-game lectures though. Instead, I was thinking something along the lines of a pre-character set-up. When you get in-game, you have to set up a character, and when you set up this character, you choose a degree. Medicine, law, science, labor. This will determine the majority of your career future choices. Kinda like the Dead Island character selection menu. but not really. From then on-ward, you work your way up the career chain through experience, rather than tossing more cash into the magic college machine. An added benefit of this system would be the addition of replay-ability factor.

Lot Abandonment

Most lots in CityRPG only need one thing to exist. Admin approval. As long as you come on the server once in a blue moon and your build doesn't look like total garbage, it's free to waste space as long as it needs. This is a problem for me, and a perfect opportunity to give the players something to maintain.

If your lot receives regular visitors and is maintained often, then no problem. Your lot is doing okay. But if you neglect it, it's going to start falling apart. To maintain your lot you have to go to your lot and pay some money to keep it maintained (I could think of a few more complicated ideas, like trash piling up, but i'd imagine that'd get complex), paying your electric and water bills ect. This means you are visiting your lot and you are still invested in it. If your lot receives regular visitors this will prolong it's life, but it will not save if it if you abandon it.

My idea is that lots that have been neglected for a very long period of time could start to 'break down' before it is abandoned, small bricks start to break or disappear, and it becomes susceptible to fire. I have some offish feelings about this but I think it would be a cool feature. After around 1-2 weeks in-game time of a lot being completely neglected, it becomes abandoned. At this point, all the stock inside the building is sold, and the building no longer belongs to anyone. Anyone who has a demolition profession is now allowed to come to the house and begin tearing it down for money. Abandoned lots cannot be reclaimed or purchased by anyone. I had an idea that drugs could be planted inside abandoned lots but I'm not sure how that idea would work out.

Construction/Destruction

I've touched on this a few times already so I'll go into detail now.

I've had an idea that I think will play really well with the basis of CityRPG and Blockland. Building. This specifically revolves around the tasks concerning the construction job. As a builder, you will earn money for building, but not just anything. You wont earn money for spamming 1x1 red bricks all over the place. Instead, you will be given projects, and building them to the blueprints will earn you large amounts of money. This is not only a good way to earn dosh but also much more engaging than doing jack stuff. I'm not entirely sure how something like this would work, so brainstorm with me, here are some ideas.

- Building projects will generate in random empty lots at random intervals (from a set of pre-built templates)
- They are usually pretty generic but fill up empty space.
- Usually take the form of small corner stores or small houses.
- Upon completion, go onto the real estate market, keeping real estate populated with property, and providing players who are challenged in the building perspective a nice prebuilt shop to sell merchandise.
- Build projects could appear in the form of buildings made of ghost bricks? Something along those lines, to give the builder a 'blueprint' of exactly what to build. I guess it wouldn't HAVE to follow suit exactly to the blueprint, but extra money is given for planting the right bricks in the right position and in the right color.
- Construction is also in charge of road maintenance. Over time, roads will break down and pot-holes will form. Pot-holes that are not fixed will eventually be payed for by the city, thus hurting the economy.

My idea is that for a random civilian to place bricks for his home or whatever, they will need resources which costs money. On the other hand, builders have access to infinite resources. It may be preferable to civilians to design blueprints rather than build their own houses, and have a builder do it for them. Builders receive huge bonuses for building player-made blueprints. Obviously this feature would be entirely optional, just an interesting idea.

Destruction is the trade dealing in tearing down old, dated buildings and paving way for the new. My idea is that the server starts off with large amounts of abandoned buildings. Armed with only a hammer, demolitioners will break down these buildings a brick at a time, earning money per brick. This means that larger demo projects result in larger payouts. Completing a demolition project quickly will result in a bonus.

Shop-keeping

As it currently stands, shops in CityRPG consist of a lot and a bunch of evented bricks. That's it, no maintenance required.
When I used to play San Andreas online, I was a part of a Cops and Robbers server called SACNR where people could own stores. It would make them a weekly base in-come, but nobody could buy from your store if you didn't have stock, so I believe that should be introduced to CityRPG. Owning a store is preferable because it gives you a nice weekly income, and extra in-come for selling to players. The only thing is: You need stock. This means you will either have to:

- Import stock from overseas for a sizeable amount of dosh (much cheaper if there are no industrial buildings on the server)
- Visit an industrial warehouse and have stock shipped to your store.
- It is ultimately cheaper to hire a truck driver to deliver stock to your store. All truck drivers are notified when you have payed for stock (assuming you are not importing from overseas) and they will be tasked to deliver the stock from the designated warehouse to your store. Truck drivers receive a large bonus for delivering to player-owned stores.

All purchases from a store will earn the owner a basic profit, so no more vendors stealing all the business by selling their products at $0 profit. Your prices and your profits will be determined by the amount of customers you receive and the amount you invest in your store.

What can stores sell?

Earlier I mentioned that the only things you can buy in this entirely money-based gamemode is property, guns and food. So how can we change that? I'm not sure, but I find that GTAV takes a somewhat distantly parallel buying system to CityRPG when you look at it closely enough. My idea was that, well, maybe we can make the player buy clothes. You want a red shirt? Gotta go to a store that stocks it and buy it. You want a decal on that shirt? Gotta buy that too. You can access your clothes from a special GUI system I guess, or something along the lines of a wardrobe brick. Here are some other ideas:

- Buying cars. Instead of buying vehicle spawns, we could buy cars themselves. Steal the insurance system directly from GTAV. Buy different colors for your car. Make a command to summon your car in-case Blockland's forgeted up physics system fails you.
- Buying decorations for your home. Some potted plants and hanged art, ect. Flaunt your wealth with expensive decorations.
- Ect.

Obviously you can still buy food, and guns. Guns are a bit tricky though... we have to ask ourselves why we need guns. We may need to stop intruders breaking into our home, but why would intruders break into our home in the first place? Maybe we can store money in our homes as a loophole to prevent paying more tax/med fees/rent? This brings me to my next point, which can be found in the following post.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2015, 06:34:12 AM by Rally »

Organized Crime

"click player to pickpocket" is a lousy crime system. No more petty thieves spawning in with assault rifles either. There are no crime 'jobs' because crime is not a real job. So what can criminals do?

- Rob people. You will take a small % of whatever the victim has on them, plus a small base value so it's worthwhile. You can only rob somebody once per day.
- Rob stores. Shoplifting will just give you a pretty high % chance to get away with it, but results in low cash. Robbing stores at gunpoint will set off an alarm which alerts police, you will hurt the business of the victim, and if you pull it off you will earn some pretty gnarly dosh. You cannot rob a player store if they are not online, NPC stores are open season all the time.
- Rob banks. The ultimate heist. Huge jail time and fines if you forget it up. Pull it off though, find yourself in a mansion.

None of this requires you to be a part of a 'criminal' job. You can be a janitor at city hall by day and a mugger by night. If you get caught though, chances are you're going to lose your job. End up in prison for a serious crime, good luck finding a job (applying for a job costs money and you have a % chance of getting the job based on experience, the degree you chose, job pretentiousness, the amount of players who already have that job, and your criminal record. The higher you go, the lower the chance is to get a job with a criminal record, which causes a huge % penalty to your chances)

The consequences of crime will either be lenient or harsh depending on your crime. Petty theft probably just results in community service (basically being a street cleaner without the pay), and stuff like armed robbery will put you in jail for a while and will have an impact on your career. Going on a murdering spree and getting caught may score you a death sentence, in which all your lots become abandoned, all your dosh goes to the economy, and you are required to make a new character and start all over. If your crime is petty enough, then you'll just get a ticket. If it's serious, an arrest warrant will be issued. This effectively nullifies the whole "PAYING DEMS DONT ARREST ME" bullstuff that goes on non-stop. If you are killed within a certain radius and a cop is near-by and you have an arrest warrant, you will wake up in prison rather than the hospital.

Police

Law enforcement is an important part of CityRPG, to make sure the crims don't run free. If you have demerits, they will only begin to cool off if there are cops online, meaning you can't just endlessly rob stores when there are no cops online and expect the consequences to be smaller by the time they do get online.

But I've played CityRPG, and as important as cops really are, they're pretty overpowered at times and it sucks. It can boil down to some pretty hardcore beef and bad-blood between criminals and police rather than friendly competition, especially when it comes to busting drugs. So here's my idea: Search warrants. A cop can't lawfully come breaking down your doors and searching your property without a warrant. This warrant needs to go through the justice process, and thus requires the officer to pay court fees, and they also expire after a certain amount of time. So if you think someone is harboring drugs, you might want to do some research before you go waste money on a search warrant and find nothing or don't know how to get to them. However, if you DO find drugs on their property, you are refunded for the warrant and receive a handsome bonus on-top of that. Players must still keep their drugs accessible (but are encouraged to hide them well) but the need for ridiculous safeguarding is decreased. Even if a police officer uses some sort of crazy vehicle glitch to get into your drug room, they are still unlawfully entering your home without a warrant. If a cop batons drugs on private property without a warrant, they will not receive a bonus and they will receive criminal charges for unlawful entry and seizure, regardless of the illegal nature of the substance seized. Now this wont cost you your job right out the gate, but if it happens repeatedly there could be consequences. So if you're really that dedicated to keeping the neighborhood clean, go for it. But you should get a search warrant.

Police will sometimes find themselves in fire-fights with criminals, and unfortunately sometimes a civilian can wander into the aim of your gun. This can be a pain in the ass when it comes to being charged, so my idea is this: if the cop accidentally assaults a civilian but has recently hurt or killed a criminal, then no charges will be brought to the officer. If you accidentally shoot a bunch of civilians trying to take a criminal down though, that's pretty reckless and you should be held responsible. As a general rule of thumb, an officer will be suspended from duty and pay (stripping them of their powers of arrest) when they commit a crime instead of being sent to jail. Commit a crime while suspended however, and that's a different story.

Lot sizes

Nobody has ever built anything city-themed that looks even half decent on a 16x16 lot. Leave 16x lots as purchasable flat, ground level lots on the side of the street that people can build hot-dog stands and streetside vendors on. They cannot be built more than 6 bricks high. A strategically placed hot-dog stand could generate some pretty nifty revenue if you can keep up with the maintenance costs.

Basically, purchasable lots should start at 32x and go all the way up to 128 or maybe even 256. I've seen it happen. I started building a 128x256 sky scraper on iPhone's once, but had to stop because it was made up of 64x64 lot plates and you could not build across them.

Giving the player a goal to achieve.

Now that each individual player has something to do that dynamically changes based on their career choices, we can start thinking of the direction the server itself goes in. What is the ultimate goal of CityRPG? Is it the quest to find friendship? I'd prefer something material, like a scenario. Say the server starts off with a stuffty town. Abandoned buildings everywhere. These buildings must be torn down and new buildings must be erected. Players build their lives and the economy improves, and maybe as the economy progresses, new areas are unlocked that can now be built upon until we have built a thriving city. Maybe there are two cities, and each player that joins is assigned to one randomly. First city to rebuild itself is the winner. A bit far-fetched but I'm just spit-balling here.

Maybe it is the pursuit of happiness. Or since Blockheads can't really have emotions and playing on any kind of emotion would probably cause the server to spiral into a weirdly controlled Family RP, so maybe it's just the pursuit of material possessions. Have a leader-board of players with the highest server net-worth and have everyone compete for the top spot. That's probably the most realistic option. Either way, the players need closure. Something to achieve that isn't just 'more money'.



At this point, I've become pretty aware that I'm basically just going on a very big tangent now and this has become more of a request than a criticism, so I'll probably have to put this in suggestions + requests. Either way, this is my dream of the possible reformation of CityRPG. I've probably left out a bunch on accident so for that I am sorry. Anyways, if you've actually read everything up to this point, I greatly appreciate it. No seriously, it's about 11 pages in Microsoft word. Good job.

Leave any questions, comments, criticisms, personal ideas and opinions below.

Oh, I almost forgot. I was going to write a detailed section on the use of NPCs, but I forgot, so I'll give you a heavily summarized version. I think we should use NPCs in our servers, which will provide minor services when there aren't any suitable players online to provide those services.

also ~reserved for later~ i guess

I read the entire thing, well said. I share your opinions and experiences I've had on some CityRPGs and it isn't fun after you die for the 10th time but stick around because you've been there for a couple hours. I like the ideas all around but I feel that something like a food system isn't exactly worthwhile to keep around. It boils down to "click a button every X to not die, but if you forget we'll just annoyingly teleport you". Perhaps if there were some sort of food system, it would affect the height/speed/size of the player? Not sure how it would benefit to eat all the food that comes to you, but it's food for thought.

I'm not a great builder myself but whenever I looked around the city I was in, I couldn't build to a theme because there was no theme. Sounds like you could get a group of builders to make up some builds(outside CityRPG), convert it to blueprints and see how the players build up a city. So that way it still fits a central theme, at least I think it would.

Might want to restrict people from being able to get weapons from a buddy, going on a murdering spree then coming back and doing it all again since I know that someone'll do it. Or even without a buddy. Maybe the price of guns gets higher by a percentage every time they have a death sentence, or if it happens enough they can't buy a certain type of gun anymore, like an assault rifle is no longer available for them. I would think that a rocket launcher would quickly become cut off if the player was just being a troublemaker.

3 Things i have to also add.

Healthcare

Injuries normally are permenant but if there were a healthcare system they could be treated for a fee unless its free which i will discuss later.

Sickness is also a thing,there are 3 types of viruses. Bacteria,Virus and Plague. Bacteria hurts your character. Virus does different effects and is the most common. Plague are the rarest and spread wildly and usually are weak but can be very strong. Especially if its from a criminal scientist doing work on something from healthcare that does a bio-weapon.

If there is more budget in the city or a widespread plague,healthcare is free.

Technology

The city starts out in old times,after world war 2 to be precise. It goes all the way to the future. Faster if there is more scientists.

Adjustable Needs of the City

The more there is a problem with something like crime being more common,it is encouraged to be a police officer and the police are stronger. If the opposite happens and crime is low,police officers are disencouraged and the police are weaker.

...

begin somewhere close to 9AM game time and end somewhere close to 5PM game time

...

So, what do I mean by tasks? Well I have a couple ideas. Here are some examples of jobs with an idea of what their tasks may include.
Builder - Must repair roads which develop pot-holes, may have to build small template builds around the city in empty lots. If there are multiple builders working on a project, all players earn a teamwork bonus. This may encourage builders to come together to form construction companies.
Demolition - Must tear down abandoned lots and damaged property. (I'll touch on both abandoned lots and template builds later)
Fire-fighter - Occasional fires will break out (only on abandoned lots or pre-determined lots) which they must put out. If there are no fire-fighters online, no fires can start.
Doctor - Has to work in a hospital, this one is a bit complicated and probably has an element of fantasy. It involves bots... every once in a while a patient is admitted to the ER with a random scenario concerning their visit. Doctor must determine the right diagnosis from a certain set of options. (kinda like a quiz, I could think of a few ways to make this less mundane than it sounds). Also, my idea is that when a player dies, they can either pay a size-able sum of money to jump right back into the game (free if there are no doctors online) or spend a small amount of time in the hospital. Doctors will receive huge bonuses for treating players.
Police Officer - Has to patrol certain areas of the town, may have to respond to some small NPC/Bot based situations.
Truck driver - Drives a truck between warehouse and store, delivering stock.
Pizza delivery - Drives a car between pizzahut and homes delivering pizza. Basically the same thing as truck driver but on a smaller scale with less pre-requisites.
Street cleaner - Cleans up trash he finds around the city, cutting grass and polishing streets.
Scientist - Collect samples from nearby plants, identifying them. Obviously this one is just an example of how far we could take the task system.

...

If your lot receives regular visitors and is maintained often, then no problem. Your lot is doing okay. But if you neglect it, it's going to start falling apart. To maintain your lot you have to go to your lot and pay some money to keep it maintained
All that is still
just boring maintenance.
The reason City RPG as a concept doesn't work in Blockland, why it never will, is because it is fundamentally unfitting. We have two routes to go for:
- Have everything handled by a script.
- Have the server be what the community makes it.

Blockland simply isn't big enough as a community to make a fully-featured city rpg. Court systems, maintenance work, building lots, policing streets, running investigations, hiring attorneys. If we knit all these together we get a fantastic mod. Realistically no one is a cop that moonlights as an expert architect and builder. To get the level of realism you highlight in this post requires constant traffic. As of now, anything on this scale just crumbles under its own weight, the system doesn't get enough traffic to create a sustainable economy. Take SA:MP - GTA IV multiplayer mod. It has role play servers which allow the player to make the game what they want through role play. This wouldn't be feasible if 40% of all the required servicing jobs were unavailable at busy times and 90%-100% at slower times (which is half the time in Blockland). Not to mention they require new players to go through rigorous quizzes which require lengthy learning which weeds out players who break the role play, a Blockland server barely scrapes by with the traffic it gets, no matter the quality of traffic.

The only alternative is to make it a pseudo-economy handled through script. This is the same realization as Iban, Jookia, Diggy, etc. reached. Making a self-sufficient economy isn't possible. What you end up with IS the city rpg mod today. Attaching gimmicks and maintenance work to it will not fix a fundamentally flawed problem, it will just increase the amount of players in the server being there because they have to, bloating up the number of players without any substantial gameplay addition, it only adds to gameplay if richer people who can afford to do what they want (which is only guns) join and cause chaos. That's when a basic need even for policing and court systems comes in.

<Nevermind Dannu explains it more>
« Last Edit: October 27, 2015, 05:03:54 PM by Kyuande »

Gonna go with dannu on this one. The more realistic you make it, the more unrealistic your expectations become. CityRPG as we have it now is about as realistic as you can make it before it starts falling apart at the seams.

My least favorite thing in city RPGs is the brutally slow money curve new players face when joining.
The first thing I ever want to do is just build something, but I have to grind up the money for a minimum of three hours first for a small 16x16 plot.

Also, a City RP is different than a City RPG...
« Last Edit: October 27, 2015, 06:25:42 PM by Mr.Noßody »

Another personal anecdote: I can't remember who was the host, but I recall a certain CityRPG where the host attempted to combat this by causing your in-come to decrease over time, and could only be restored by doing a small mundane task that was somewhat related to that job. I was a lawyer on this server, and in order to retain my income, I would walk around the city, looking for people who had demerits, and I would pay 1 of their demerits for $1, making my in-come full for at-least 3 ticks. This isn't really fun. It's just boring maintenance.
:cookieMonster:

This topic really motivates me to finish CRP2. In CRP2, there is no job path for 'criminal' and the players create the jobs (it sounds scary but I assuer you, it's not easily exploitable). The more a player does their job, the more they get paid from a finite account instead of sitting around waiting for money to rain from the sky.

Gonna go with dannu on this one. The more realistic you make it, the more unrealistic your expectations become. CityRPG as we have it now is about as realistic as you can make it before it starts falling apart at the seams.

It's not about 'realism'. It's about having an actual game to play. Real life sucks and if that's what CityRPG is trying to emulate, it's doing a very good job.
The tasks I suggested don't have to be 'realistic', I just want them to be even remotely engaging.

Blockland simply isn't big enough as a community to make a fully-featured city rpg. ... a Blockland server barely scrapes by with the traffic it gets, no matter the quality of traffic.

I can't really make out your point here. I understand that you're not always going to have 64 players online to make everything run smoothly but I also drew up some ideas to counter that. It doesn't necessarily require the server to have at-least one person doing every job. I.E. Owning a store doesn't actually require any other players, and being a truck driver doesn't require any player-owned stores. But when the requisite players are online, players get a substantial bonus for working with each other. We don't need a court system, the court system exists as sort-of a 'background concept' that nobody actually interacts with. I'm not saying players have to be 100% responsible for everything going on in the server.

If you think what I've suggested is boring then I'd encourage you to come up with something else. Because it can't be any more boring than doing absolutely nothing.

This topic really motivates me to finish CRP2. In CRP2, there is no job path for 'criminal' and the players create the jobs (it sounds scary but I assuer you, it's not easily exploitable). The more a player does their job, the more they get paid from a finite account instead of sitting around waiting for money to rain from the sky.

Sounds very interesting. CRPG has infinite potential in my opinion. Any kind of innovation is a step in the right direction at this point.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2015, 10:36:49 PM by Rally »

ill just plug this here.

this past week ive been attempting to remake cityrpg under the name "LifeRP". i like some of your ideas and feel like cityrpg could be endlessly improved upon.

i have a time system that can do minutes, hours, months, and years.

the thing i think is cool about my lifeRP so far is that the months are fully customisable. here is april's code file for example:
Code: [Select]
$LifeRP::temp::month::id = 4;
$LifeRP::temp::month::name = "April";
$LifeRP::temp::month::shortName = "Apr"; //currently unused

$LifeRP::temp::month::days = 30;
$LifeRP::temp::month::leapDays = 30;

$LifeRP::temp::month::message1 = "\c6April Fools!";
$LifeRP::temp::month::message2 = "\c6It's Earth Day!";
and this is thrown into a scriptobject very similar to cityrpg's job system.


speaking of jobs, there are currently two types of job, what i call "IDLE" and "QUOTA".

"IDLE" type is similar to cityrpg where you do absolutely nothing and get paid. here is the job i have been using for testing this job type:
Code: [Select]
$LifeRP::temp::job::id = "slacker";
$LifeRP::temp::job::name = "Slacker";
$LifeRP::temp::job::type = "IDLE";

$LifeRP::temp::job::description1 = "A friendly neighborhood family offered to give you $10 every day to help get you on your feet.";
$LifeRP::temp::job::description2 = "You will be paid $10 everyday at 10:00 AM. That's it. You'll still collect welfare.";

$LifeRP::temp::job::paycheck = 10;
$LifeRP::temp::job::paycheckStart = 10;
$LifeRP::temp::job::paycheckEnd = 10;

$LifeRP::temp::job::welfare = true;

$LifeRP::temp::job::jobCommand = true;
this is mainly implemented in memory of cityrpg. this type probably wont be used much, only for dumb silly things like the above maybe. but it's an option for people who may host this and make their own jobs.

"QUOTA" type requires you to do things. for testing this job type i have made a writer job:
Code: [Select]
$LifeRP::temp::job::id = "writer";
$LifeRP::temp::job::name = "Writer";
$LifeRP::temp::job::type = "QUOTA";

$LifeRP::temp::job::description1 = "A local news place offered you a job in writing articles.";
$LifeRP::temp::job::description2 = "You will be paid $8 per hour at 8 AM to 4 PM as long as you write 30 words per hour.";

$LifeRP::temp::job::quotaType = "WORDS";
$LifeRP::temp::job::quotaMessage = "Words Written";
$LifeRP::temp::job::quota = 30;
$LifeRP::temp::job::quotaExtra = 50;

$LifeRP::temp::job::paycheck = 8;
$LifeRP::temp::job::paycheckExtra = 10;
$LifeRP::temp::job::paycheckStart = 8;
$LifeRP::temp::job::paycheckEnd = 16;
$LifeRP::temp::job::paycheckOvertime = 3;

$LifeRP::temp::job::welfare = false;

$LifeRP::temp::job::jobCommand = true;
unlike the idle type, you actually have to do things. if you don't you will not get paid (but you will never be fired). if you do extra/overtime, however, you will be awarded with a higher paycheck. i might implement a promotion system which simply raises your paycheck.

to meet your quota admins have to actually build something and event it. this is to help the host be creative as possible. want a job where you have to kill 5 bots per hour? event some bots to add the job's quota to the killer. want a job where you have to score 10 baskets per hour? event some basketball hoop to add the quota if someone scored somehow (i dont think onBallHit can do client unless i am mistaken).

if you want to hardcode something relating to job quotas that are not possible with events, it should be easy. the id of the player's job is stored in a pref, and you can use the id to get the quota type of the job. (jobs are scriptobjects like cityrpg)

and admins could add little bonus things if they really want to. they can increase player scores with an admin only event, so perhaps make some fun minigames similar to GTA.

things from cityrpg that are not in that i'll try to implement:
crime system/dealing with criminals
education
buying things (you only buy the baseplate you place on the ground)
shops/selling things
laboring for wood and ore
drugs
other things?

things that i want to add somehow:
a mayor system - they can change a few liferp prefs and players must vote etc
totalrpg - doing quests for money or as a job would be cool. plus could use this for laboring instead of doing my own thing
farming
tons of things to buy (but i dont want to lock many blockland features under an ingame paywall)
other things i forgot but will probably remember at another time

my goal with lifeRP is to make it more advanced, "fun" (not too focused on realism, just want people to enjoy it and RP maybe), and very user friendly (is making a mod moddable a thing?). i also want players to be doing things and be occupied. it's possible i might not be successful or end up doing a terrible coding job but i am getting results and that's fine by me.

and hoo boy there are gonna be some large posts in this topic i see.

I've been thinking of a way to make it so people have to do actual jobs to get their pay. Never actually thought of it much, though.

CityRPG with Bots? Could work. Only problem is, I've never seen a server even using Bots unless its for a zombie server.

I've not played CityRPG much because of the sheer grind of getting started. I think a fatal flaw is that, while being rich is pretty much everyones goal, it should still be enjoyable to be an uneducated hobo at the start. Progression should be used to make it feel like your character and their story are developing, not as a big carrot on a stick. It should also be done in an emergent way for maximum enjoyment - nobody really wants to be hero #3038 on the same path, even MMOs are learning that. I also really dislike immersion breaking slash commands so there's that too, though maybe that's changed - I haven't played in a long while and last time I did there was a bank machine and stuff which was better.