Detailed: Kimon derails thread to argue, goes ballistic and embarasses himself

[Kimon²]

a little piece of advice: try to not be the cool calm guy who "totally doesn't care about the argument" because it just makes you look like a douche

i know what you're saying it's just that i really do not want the argument to continue

It's not about winning, dumbass. Calling me and anyone else sensible was a desperate loving move especially considering you only did it as a "Gotcha!" tactic

alright listen. i am going to break it down for you one last time. you said that samus cannot be trans because they refer to her as a female. that can either mean you don't think trans women are real women, which other people using the same exact argument are on board with, or it can be because they don't consistently re-iterate that she's trans it means she isn't. that's a little stupid because it doesn't definitively disprove anything at all. it's not sensible to claim there is a difference between women and trans women, but that doesn't mean trans women can't be referred to by female pronouns with no further clarification. it's not necessary.

[Ad Bot]

[ultimamax]

It seems to me that Kimon's argument is that it doesn't matter if she is referred to as female because if she's a trans woman she would be referred to as female because she is.

Has there been any proof that she is definitively cis? I didn't see any when I read the thread.

Personally I think she's cis, that tidbit he posted is the words of someone who did design for a game, not someone responsible for writing the games. It was probably a joke as well. But the other arguments don't make sense

[ultimamax]

It seems to me that Kimon's argument is that it doesn't matter if she is referred to as female because if she's a trans woman she would be referred to as female because trans women are female.

Has there been any proof that she is definitively cis? I didn't see any when I read the thread.

Personally I think she's cis, that tidbit he posted is the words of someone who did design for a game, not someone responsible for writing the games. It was probably a joke as well. But the other arguments don't make sense

[ultimamax]

I forgot there was no editing so I hit the quote button and tried to edit it.

Shameless triple post.

[IkeTheGeneric]

alright listen. i am going to break it down for you one last time. you said that samus cannot be trans because they refer to her as a female. that can either mean you don't think trans women are real women, which other people using the same exact argument are on board with, or it can be because they don't consistently re-iterate that she's trans it means she isn't. that's a little stupid because it doesn't definitively disprove anything at all. it's not sensible to claim there is a difference between women and trans women, but that doesn't mean trans women can't be referred to by female pronouns with no further clarification. it's not necessary.

If Samus was actually, canononically, transloveual, don't you think anything detailing who Samus actually is would loving mention the fact that she's transloveual?

Has there been any proof that she is definitively cis? I didn't see any when I read the thread.

There is no proof that she is either, but since she isn't referred to as a transloveual save for an old manual, it's safe to assume she isn't transloveual.

[Aces]

alright listen. i am going to break it down for you one last time. you said that samus cannot be trans because they refer to her as a female. that can either mean you don't think trans women are real women, which other people using the same exact argument are on board with, or it can be because they don't consistently re-iterate that she's trans it means she isn't. that's a little stupid because it doesn't definitively disprove anything at all. it's not sensible to claim there is a difference between women and trans women, but that doesn't mean trans women can't be referred to by female pronouns with no further clarification. it's not necessary.

I get what you're saying (or rather 'got' because it was pretty apparent to me for the whole time at least) but the lack of communication to people caused them to say something which you interpreted as sensible whether it was intentional or not.

I'm really split on the topic because I never played a metroid game but it's a theory that needs to have more evidence for it for me to take the 'samus is trans' side. It seems interesting and I do wonder if it's a joke or not, as obscure references to unnecessary details about a character aren't all too uncommon.

[Satan From Wreck-It-Ralph]

samus is a he

[Kimon²]

If Samus was actually, canononically, transloveual, don't you think anything detailing who Samus actually is would loving mention the fact that she's transloveual?

no, because it's not forgetin necessary. you can just say "female" without saying "trans female." and again, one small bit of proof is still leagues better than having 0 proof at all. no matter what, no matter how small the scale, that theory has more merit. maybe not a lot, but still more merit than the other.

[IkeTheGeneric]

no, because it's not forgetin necessary.

Yes it is really forgetin necessary, If you were describing who the character is and where they came from, being transloveual isn't a detail you would want to gloss over.

That one small bit of proof hasn't been considered canon by and official statements concerning Samus because it hasn't been brought up. Is it really that hard of a concept to wrap your head around?

[Cybertails1998]

kimon, your argument would be miles better if I couldn't verbatim loving apply it to, for example, vaccinations causing the gays or autism or whatever.

in fact let me reword some of your post to emphasize how Incredibly Stupid you're sounding right now:

no, because it's not forgetin necessary. you can just say "vaccine" without saying "gay vaccine." and again, one small bit of proof is still leagues better than having 0 proof at all. no matter what, no matter how small the scale, that article has more merit. maybe not a lot, but still more merit than the other.

[Kimon²]

Yes it is really forgetin necessary, If you were describing who the character is and where they came from, being transloveual isn't a detail you would want to gloss over.

well i mean she's a space bounty hunter robot who has saved many, many lives. that isn't the most important thing to note, especially in a game who's primary audience is for kids.

That one small bit of proof hasn't been considered canon by and official statements concerning Samus because it hasn't been brought up. Is it really that hard of a concept to wrap your head around?

i'm not gonna assume it's false unless they actually come out to say it's false. i understand what you're saying, but there's more than one way to look at it.

kimon, your argument would be miles better if I couldn't verbatim loving apply it to, for example, vaccinations causing the gays or autism or whatever.

in fact let me reword some of your post to emphasize how Incredibly Stupid you're sounding right now:

that literally makes no sense. like that is literally 100% unrelated to this subject, especially because it is constantly denounced by health officials. meanwhile this trivia fact has not been denounced.

[Yosher]

i know what you're saying it's just that i really do not want the argument to continue

good. stop responding.

[Kimon²]

good. stop responding.

yeah if i do then it's just gonna be a go-ahead for ike to start saying "kimon you loving mongoloid handicap!" because he knows he can get away with it.

[ultimamax]

There is no proof that she is either, but since she isn't referred to as a transloveual save for an old manual, it's safe to assume she isn't transloveual.

I agree. I'm just saying there is no definitive proof that Kimon is wrong, there are merely compelling arguments (which I ultimately agree with)

I feel like Kimon gets stuff on a lot for being an "skeleton" and he really doesn't deal with it well at all. Then people say legitimately problematic stuff but because Kimon is the one arguing against it people get the wrong idea.

no, because it's not forgetin necessary. you can just say "female" without saying "trans female." and again, one small bit of proof is still leagues better than having 0 proof at all. no matter what, no matter how small the scale, that theory has more merit. maybe not a lot, but still more merit than the other.

Well evidence isn't the only thing relevant to the merit of a theory. Consider the context:
1. the guy who said she's trans appears to be someone who draws backgrounds and largely uninvolved with samus' lore
2. her transness has never been brought up again
3. it's very possible he was making a rude joke
4. she would have likely been referred to as a "nyuuhafu" or something before the modern japanese phrase came about, yet she never was
5. all these secondary sources he linked don't refer to her being transgendered at all, these are headed by metroid nerds who pore over everything they can to add to metroid lore.(because of how few games there are) it's likely they saw this and didn't consider it to be a legit statement for the reasons above

well i mean she's a space bounty hunter robot who has saved many, many lives. that isn't the most important thing to note, especially in a game who's primary audience is for kids.
it's a pretty significant and interesting character trait actually
i'm not gonna assume it's false unless they actually come out to say it's false. i understand what you're saying, but there's more than one way to look at it.
and we're saying it's naive to assume it's true because you want her to be trans.

[Alternat¡ve]

yeah if i do then it's just gonna be a go-ahead for ike to start saying "kimon you loving mongoloid handicap!" because he knows he can get away with it.

maybe because you are one