Author Topic: Annie's Medieval RP Unfair Ban  (Read 6653 times)

I think this sort of RP would work out with a dice mod though.
Have you ever heard of or taken a look at how D&D works?
It's actually p fair in terms of what you're talking about.

Now that I think about it, almost all of the problems listed here could be solved by adhering to dice controlling whether or not an action succeeds or not.
DnD RP anyone?
i <3 dnd
These things.

No system of game mechanics could handle the stuff that goes on here,
See above.

Make things up as you go, but have it based on some base skills and luck. Then, you get a number, and determine whether some action succeeds, or how effectively it is done, based on how ambitious it is, and some general traits of the characters in question. If their back is turned when the attempt is made, it's more likely to succeed, but they would have a better chance if they had, for example, good passive perception.

You can come up with how the probability should work out on the spot for any arbitrary action, then get a conclusive result from chance instead of ambiguous decision-making.

The challenge comes when you have to set aside the information you know which your character does not. If the pickpocket is highly successful (say, they roll a 20, and that means they succeed without being noticed at all), and there isn't anything else to suggest who did it, the victim is not allowed to hold a mysterious grudge and go after them.

In my opinion, combining role-playing aspects with a relatively simple system of numbers and anticipating the result of the dice is way more appealing than trying to RP by words alone.


But, of course, mine is the opinion of someone who has not played in your server, so take it as you will.



...Now I want to make a D&D-inspired RP. Except right now I have to write this essay within the next two hours oh hell why am I on the forums right now

You can come up with how the probability should work out on the spot for any arbitrary action

(say, they roll a 20, and that means they succeed without being noticed at all)

Important note: The chances are decided by multiple people before the result is rolled, not just by the person who rolled it or after the fact. That would defeat the purpose and keep the whole situation as annoyingly arbitrary as what you're doing now.

...Now I want to make a D&D-inspired RP. Except right now I have to write this essay within the next two hours oh hell why am I on the forums right now
Working on a map for an RP already, might as well incorporate D&D aspects into it.

Noedit: Furthermore, the RP is not designed to be anywhere near as combat-oriented as an RPG is. You don't need to go fighting and beating things up to solve all your problems.
Because you're playing RPGs focused only on combat. In DRPG, the goal was to grind all levels to max and get the best combat gear so you could kill everyone and they couldn't do anything to stop you. It was combat focused. However, there are certainly ways to create a medieval/fantasy RPG with both combat and non combat.

An RPG with combat can still have other ways to solve problems, which is essentially the goal for my PRPG.
Non combat scenario: A random event happens and your town's crops get diseased. If you can't cure them yourself, maybe hire an alchemist to create a potion that will cure them. Then that alchemist might hire someone to sail to another island to get ingredients. That island is then run by another player who harvests the ingredients and sells them. Business is done and the crops are eventually cured.

Combat scenario: The same event happens and the crops are diseased. This time, the head of the town instructs his soldiers to go out and get the materials needed for the potion. They head out to that island, but the merchant is charging 3x the normal amount for the ingredients. The soldiers don't have time to argue, and kill the merchant and take all the ingredients. As a result, the crops are cured, but the two islands start fighting.

By presenting scenarios that aren't solved directly by a sword, players are encouraged to try other things. The diseased crops scenario requires a potion to cure them. You can't just swing your sword and cure the crops (well, unless you have some holy blessing). You're required to get the potion or lose all your source of income. The nature of this event opens up a variety of paths because of the many steps required to complete it. When combat becomes an option rather than a necessity and when there are penalties to fighting, players might be opt to try something else. There's nothing wrong with combat scenarios, but when that's all an RPG has, it's going to wind up being entirely combat focused.

It would be a quest to get the holy blessing for the sword

It would be interesting if there was magic, but the church would be a huge power in the RP like it was in medieval times, and if the church caught you using magic, you could get in trouble.

-snip'd-
You need to make this into an addon. Right now. Pls eksi. pls.

yeah, I need to finish a science project right now, but I can't get off the internet. pls halp.

My character name was Rennac or something like that if I remember correctly... Can't remember the guy I was robbing. Also, you say half of the people want to be thieves, yet every time I've been online, all I see are cat-people, who have nothing to rob, a few odd knights and maybe a dark elf too...

My character wasnt exactly a thief... Just a mercenary who just needed money for food and whatnot. And since he had no clients, he had to resort in stealing.

Ok, clarification: Like half of the people try to be thieves or assassins and then get banned. The rest hang around. There are all of two cat-people in existence (there was a third but he sucked and got banned). I haven't actually seen any dark elves yet.
Rennac, huh... sorry man, it doesn't ring a bell, although I'm pretty sure any ban you ever had was lost in one of many server crashes.

Have you ever heard of or taken a look at how D&D works?
It's actually p fair in terms of what you're talking about.

Now that I think about it, almost all of the problems listed here could be solved by adhering to dice controlling whether or not an action succeeds or not.
DnD RP anyone?
The issue is that some people would rather have it based on cunning and/or telling a sort of story rather than having random numbers controlling everything. Can't please everyone.
Heed brings up a good point though.  Playing fair is never anyone's objective, because there's always that one guy who "takes on the powers of darkness", and is therefore invincible.  I mean you ban a guy for stealing something, but the RP system by order of word, you argue, is more fair.  Seems ironic to me.

And your version of idiocy sounds more like " my way or the highway."
We actually had one of those guys as a super admin for a while. He got a hefty talking to and he and everyone who had to OP themselves to survive him all got nerfed just the other day. Essentially the system puts "fair play" up to the administration, and if you get stuff administration, that sorta causes some problems.
Usually the bans aren't long, and we lose a lot of them due to server crashes.
Noedit.
Seems ironic to me that you're hellbent on giving players time to react rather than the simple means to react.

If I was a visitor to any RP, it would be more enjoyable if everyone had the same opportunities and abilities.  This is what makes the RPG system more fair, in that everyone can rise to power by their own abilities.
The issue is that RPs (or at least this one) are for telling a story, and if you don't tell a very good story, you're not going to accomplish much.
Make things up as you go, but have it based on some base skills and luck. Then, you get a number, and determine whether some action succeeds, or how effectively it is done, based on how ambitious it is, and some general traits of the characters in question. If their back is turned when the attempt is made, it's more likely to succeed, but they would have a better chance if they had, for example, good passive perception.

You can come up with how the probability should work out on the spot for any arbitrary action, then get a conclusive result from chance instead of ambiguous decision-making.
See above storytelling note.
Strangely, some folks with far more absurd plans can get away with it just for the sheer humor value of the results.
The challenge comes when you have to set aside the information you know which your character does not. If the pickpocket is highly successful (say, they roll a 20, and that means they succeed without being noticed at all), and there isn't anything else to suggest who did it, the victim is not allowed to hold a mysterious grudge and go after them.

In my opinion, combining role-playing aspects with a relatively simple system of numbers and anticipating the result of the dice is way more appealing than trying to RP by words alone.
We have anti-meta rules against the first one already for things like plotting and planning against other characters.
The idea here though is that this RP essentially is one prolonged storytelling session and words are the essence of the story.
Again, this server probably isn't for some people.
Important note: The chances are decided by multiple people before the result is rolled, not just by the person who rolled it or after the fact. That would defeat the purpose and keep the whole situation as annoyingly arbitrary as what you're doing now.
What are you trying to propose, here, exactly? You're starting to confuse me.

Because you're playing RPGs focused only on combat. In DRPG, the goal was to grind all levels to max and get the best combat gear so you could kill everyone and they couldn't do anything to stop you. It was combat focused. However, there are certainly ways to create a medieval/fantasy RPG with both combat and non combat.

An RPG with combat can still have other ways to solve problems, which is essentially the goal for my PRPG.
Non combat scenario: A random event happens and your town's crops get diseased. If you can't cure them yourself, maybe hire an alchemist to create a potion that will cure them. Then that alchemist might hire someone to sail to another island to get ingredients. That island is then run by another player who harvests the ingredients and sells them. Business is done and the crops are eventually cured.

Combat scenario: The same event happens and the crops are diseased. This time, the head of the town instructs his soldiers to go out and get the materials needed for the potion. They head out to that island, but the merchant is charging 3x the normal amount for the ingredients. The soldiers don't have time to argue, and kill the merchant and take all the ingredients. As a result, the crops are cured, but the two islands start fighting.

By presenting scenarios that aren't solved directly by a sword, players are encouraged to try other things. The diseased crops scenario requires a potion to cure them. You can't just swing your sword and cure the crops (well, unless you have some holy blessing). You're required to get the potion or lose all your source of income. The nature of this event opens up a variety of paths because of the many steps required to complete it. When combat becomes an option rather than a necessity and when there are penalties to fighting, players might be opt to try something else. There's nothing wrong with combat scenarios, but when that's all an RPG has, it's going to wind up being entirely combat focused.
The issue with your rpg scenario is that it will be riddled with meta. People will know things far beyond what their characters will have the legitimate ability to find out. It will not work for a real roleplay, at least not on any large scale.

never heard of a thief that lets his target know that hes attempting to pick their pockets clean, better yet, isnt the archetype of the character based around the idea of remaining incognito while making a profit off of other player`s stolen objects of value? i mean why limit the thief by these flawed rules of interaction? of course no one wants to have their things stolen, but isnt that decision up to the thief-like how many times do you see a thief literally walk up to some chump and go "hey im going to TRY to steal your hat" the answer: none, unless theyre a really bad thief, joking, or for any other reason that does not involve actually stealing the hat. its not like the player doesnt have any chance to gain his item back anyways-once he/she realizes that their item has been snatched, then theres that moment of clarfity that arises from just being robbed, and soon after pursuit of the thief-which cant be experienced to the same effect as to pretending that your character became prey to such immoral acts.

The issue is that some people would rather have it based on cunning and/or telling a sort of story rather than having random numbers controlling everything.
If you're seeing two playing types as two different worlds that cannot be mixed, then that is the problem.

Numbers shouldn't define it, nor should words.

Here's how it breaks down:

Numbers set constraints for the story.  They provide goals, aspirations, and a sense of achievement upon completing a goal.  In RPGs, goals can be met over and over again, to almost no end.  With a complete number system, there is little to no character.

Words set detail to a story.  They provide player freedom and ability to give your character a unique personality, and give others the opportunity to develop a public image as well.  With a complete verbal system there is a vague or missing goal.

With both, you have an ideal system that has direction, achievement, and character development.  Any good story, has a sense of conflict and resolution.  Imagine the flavors bitter and sweet.  With much bitterness, the sweet reward at the end will be all the more sweeter.  With no bitterness, the sweetness doesn't have as much flavor.  Art forms like music are much the same way.  With blurred or vague definitions between objectives, this is worse, because your sense of bitter and sweet is also confused.  Words enter into the realm of appeal; diplomacy, if you will.  If you interact well with people, you will naturally be rewarded for it.  Suppose you are generous to people and donate resources and weapons to others.  It's the whole golden egg goose brown townogy - - when you wait, you will be gifted, but when you try to seize things for yourself, you lose that benefit.

For this, I recommend things like cooperative quests, requiring multiple members, or quests in general.

Judging by the influx of thieves or assassins, it's pretty clear that the mixed system has it's own appeal.  banning them does nothing, asking them what they want in a RP-based server does much more.

This sounds like crap. I think this sort of RP would work out with a dice mod though. So instead of having like a 100% chance of not doing whatever you tried to do because obviously the person's not going to just let you do it, you have an actual chance.

I like the idea of dice, but I think it needs a bit more added too it. Maybe players enter a duel mode where you roll to attack, roll to dodge? Would make critical failures hilarious.

The issue is that some people would rather have it based on cunning and/or telling a sort of story rather than having random numbers controlling everything. Can't please everyone.
You're thinking of roleplaying as several people writing a book. In most cases, that's not necessarially correct. There is some storytelling/cunning to DnD, and GM's are usually more in favor of player controlling things more than just dice. It is constrained by dice to a certain extent though. It's more or less a plot tool more than anything else so that it's not just all a generic 'good guy wins 11/10 times' story. With dice, the good guy might win, the bad guy might win. It's still a story, it's just that it has some randomization to it so that it doesn't just become one giant train ride, and so that it feels a little bit realistic. Should the good guy always be able to win a fight? No. Should this random guy always be able to haggle the seller's prices down to some extremely cheap amount? No. Should the good guy always be able to instantly whip around and shoot that guy hanging from the ceiling, invisible? No. Should the bad guy always win? No. Should the seller be a stuck-up merchant? No. Should the assassin hanging from the ceiling always be able to kill his target? No. It balances through randomness while still providing a story.
You are true about not being able to please everyone though, considering each individual's taste is different from the next, but DnD and suchlike are usually able to balance out number control and verbal control in any case.

You're thinking of roleplaying as several people writing a book. In most cases, that's not necessarially correct. There is some storytelling/cunning to DnD, and GM's are usually more in favor of player controlling things more than just dice. It is constrained by dice to a certain extent though. It's more or less a plot tool more than anything else so that it's not just all a generic 'good guy wins 11/10 times' story. With dice, the good guy might win, the bad guy might win. It's still a story, it's just that it has some randomization to it so that it doesn't just become one giant train ride, and so that it feels a little bit realistic. Should the good guy always be able to win a fight? No. Should this random guy always be able to haggle the seller's prices down to some extremely cheap amount? No. Should the good guy always be able to instantly whip around and shoot that guy hanging from the ceiling, invisible? No. Should the bad guy always win? No. Should the seller be a stuck-up merchant? No. Should the assassin hanging from the ceiling always be able to kill his target? No. It balances through randomness while still providing a story.
You are true about not being able to please everyone though, considering each individual's taste is different from the next, but DnD and suchlike are usually able to balance out number control and verbal control in any case.
Yeah, GMs/DMs are in favor of players controlling things more than just dice. It seemed to me about the systems mentioned here being a bit too constrained by the dice.
In my experience, DnD over the net (and this goes for ALL rpgs) couldn't balance out verbal control and numerical control specifically because of the sheer amount of metagaming that went on. You couldn't ban all the metagamers because almost everyone did it.

never heard of a thief that lets his target know that hes attempting to pick their pockets clean, better yet, isnt the archetype of the character based around the idea of remaining incognito while making a profit off of other player`s stolen objects of value? i mean why limit the thief by these flawed rules of interaction? of course no one wants to have their things stolen, but isnt that decision up to the thief-like how many times do you see a thief literally walk up to some chump and go "hey im going to TRY to steal your hat" the answer: none, unless theyre a really bad thief, joking, or for any other reason that does not involve actually stealing the hat. its not like the player doesnt have any chance to gain his item back anyways-once he/she realizes that their item has been snatched, then theres that moment of clarfity that arises from just being robbed, and soon after pursuit of the thief-which cant be experienced to the same effect as to pretending that your character became prey to such immoral acts.
except enough thieves claim to be exceptionally fast runners and/or some other bullstuff that this factor combined with the fact that a good 50% of new players try to be a thief or assassin results in mass chaos. since you're obviously taking things out of context here, I'll offer a rebuttal out of context: In real life, if 50% of the population were thieves or assassins, society in general would be mass chaos.
You're thinking of roleplaying as several people writing a book. In most cases, that's not necessarially correct. There is some storytelling/cunning to DnD, and GM's are usually more in favor of player controlling things more than just dice. It is constrained by dice to a certain extent though. It's more or less a plot tool more than anything else so that it's not just all a generic 'good guy wins 11/10 times' story. With dice, the good guy might win, the bad guy might win. It's still a story, it's just that it has some randomization to it so that it doesn't just become one giant train ride, and so that it feels a little bit realistic. Should the good guy always be able to win a fight? No. Should this random guy always be able to haggle the seller's prices down to some extremely cheap amount? No. Should the good guy always be able to instantly whip around and shoot that guy hanging from the ceiling, invisible? No. Should the bad guy always win? No. Should the seller be a stuck-up merchant? No. Should the assassin hanging from the ceiling always be able to kill his target? No. It balances through randomness while still providing a story.
You are true about not being able to please everyone though, considering each individual's taste is different from the next, but DnD and suchlike are usually able to balance out number control and verbal control in any case.
also noedit: on some servers it is much more akin to a multitude of people writing a book.
Of course the stufftiness of many RPs in general attracts the wrong audience completely. Since it's a medieval/fantasy RP, there was one idiot who kept on joining and demanding to be the princess.
She did this about four days in a row, despite being told to can it there is no princess because starting as royalty is BS, and when she kept it up I banned her: "Being royalty takes a special kind of person. You are a different kind of special." Honestly you'd think after three cumulative hours of being told "No you cannot be the princess" she'd get the idea.

how accurate is the statistic that 50% of players actually want to roll a thief? and even if that % is correct, what does it matter? from what im seeing, the server has been and always will be built around the players. limiting them in turn limits the possibilities in "the story", not sure about you, but if half of the server`s thieves were to cooperate, there could be a pretty sick territoral dispute and mass raiding going on. from my viewpoint, the player should have the final decision on their play style, not the host-though that does not limit your ability to jail these wrong doers on various accounts of loitering, stealing, begging, and the likes. punish thieves in creative ways, use gullotines & hangings to invoke fear and risk so nobody rolls thief (also long respawn times or bans could help)