Messages

2926

Off Topic / Re: Tumblr Megathread - tumbler dot com making a real difference in the world.......

« on: August 14, 2014, 10:49:41 PM »

tbh i wish my dream of a silly putty girl would come true :>(

my waifu

2927

Off Topic / Re: Humans Need Not Apply

« on: August 14, 2014, 04:11:09 PM »

We don't need thinking robots, but given that they cost less, they will come.

2928

Off Topic / Re: ferguson police tear gas peaceful protesters

« on: August 14, 2014, 02:48:48 PM »

you're doing the same exact thing im doing lol
and what's your leverage i dont have exactly??true, but rioting isnt a good idea, it wont solve anything

there are stuffheads on both sides
lots of policeman are threatening, shooting, gassing innocent peaceful protesters
lots of the protesters have turned to rioting

personally i think the police are being disproportionately stuffty. there hasn't been much coverage of rioting. it's hard to say unless you're there.

2929

Off Topic / Re: ferguson police tear gas peaceful protesters

« on: August 14, 2014, 02:46:00 PM »

if people were civil and just let the justice system do what its made to do this wouldnt even be an issue

The judicial system is pretty in favor of abusive police. Most of the time they end up getting paid leave or transferred, not punished. Also the justice system is still pretty tribal, so that doesn't help.

2930

Off Topic / Re: Humans Need Not Apply

« on: August 14, 2014, 02:42:33 PM »

First of all, gotta love how half of you are predicting the future and acting like what you're saying is a sure thing. Second of all, artificial intelligence is permanently stuck behind the human brain at the moment due to several reasons; here's one of them, for example. Speed. Currently, none of the computer chips and storage option currently in production are close to being as fast as the human brain. This is one of the biggest factors contributing to a successful AI, especially one in the field. It needs a reasonable reaction time. Until we figure out how to easily manufacture graphene or something with similar properties, we'll most likely be stuck behind humans in terms of speed. Sure, we're still getting faster, but there's a limit to how fast we can get with our current tech.

Here's another reason. We cannot replicate what we do not understand. Example: someone gives you metal, various other materials, and professional grade tools. You have recieved no training of any sort, and you don't even know what a car is. However, you're shown a diagram of a car cutaway, given a chance to drive it, and even look at some of its workings up close. And then you're told to replicate it.

Now how do you think that's gonna turn out? Even if you were a genius, the probability that you'd be able to figure out how to replicate that car is incredibly small. How do you expect that we can do just that with the human brain, which is thousands of times more complex? By now, we've made quite a few breakthroughs in how the brain works, I know. But there's still an incredible amount that we don't know about. Therefore, I say cut the speculation and let what happens happen.

Oh, and one very important point. If everyone is so worried about robots taking our jobs, don't you think that they'll make it pretty difficult to do that? After all, it'd be pretty hard fighting a point like that against most of the workforce, which, mind you, is gigantic.

I understand these reasons. Everything I say is operating on the assumption that our speed of computing and understanding of the brain are much more advanced than now. The only thing stopping us from increasing our speed forever is the laws of the universe/physics, so it'll be interesting to see what happens then.

Just to groove that a classical computer AI will never be able to reach human level intelligence, is because it cannot do anything it was programmed to do, when the brain in turn can find things to do when faced with an unknown situation.

Also i would quote this entire thread and say that computers would not be capable of a discussion like this.
There you go.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Everything is inherently emulatable. Anything can be emulated once you hit the level where processing power is good enough to emulate subatomic particles.

Hopefully we won't even have to emulate subatomic particles, but we'll have a more abstract understanding of the human brain from which to emulate it. (For example, you could emulate all the neurons and chemical processes and their effects in the brain. The only limit of this is our understanding of the brain.)

Still... That's unrealistic. Without work, people will either a) use their free time normally, b) become incredibly lazy, or c) slowly lose it and become a criminal. However, with this whole "revolution" thing, a large increase in option c would probably be observed. Not to mention that since, sadly, our world (and this, our government) practically runs on money, I think there'd be a state of anarchy if money became obsolete. Most political figures would lose their reason to be in office - money. The few that remained because they actually care would find it pretty hard to hold everything together. There are many other problems with a society lacking in currency, but I'll stop there for now.

The end of money isn't going to happen overnight. If what I (and others on this topic) say eventually happens, we will have to transition to some new system.

2931

Off Topic / Re: Humans Need Not Apply

« on: August 14, 2014, 02:36:27 PM »

But who will manage the robots? We cant put a robot in charge of robots we know how that works out.

If robots will be capable of thinking and research, I think they'll be able to manage themselves
Otherwise it'll be humans

2932

Off Topic / Re: Humans Need Not Apply

« on: August 14, 2014, 03:27:21 AM »

A Society such as that would probably be borderline Utopia and we all know that isnt possible.

I think with the robot revolution we will hit the apex of efficiency, allowing for everyone on earth to live comfortably

2933

Off Topic / Re: Humans Need Not Apply

« on: August 14, 2014, 01:49:03 AM »

Seems like everything has to be hooked up the intenrnet these days.  Could you imagine a hacker hacking a surgeon bot and using it to commit murder?

that would definitely be interesting
my guess is things of importance like surgeons wouldnt be connected to the internet tho

2934

Off Topic / Re: Humans Need Not Apply

« on: August 14, 2014, 01:16:49 AM »

There is no reason that robots would be unable to identify psychological symptoms

2935

Games / Re: Super Smash Bros. For Wii U and 3DS Megathread: Meta Knight Confirmed

« on: August 14, 2014, 12:01:51 AM »

o stuff
tru

2936

Off Topic / Re: Humans Need Not Apply

« on: August 13, 2014, 11:59:13 PM »

Understanding the brain alone will take a hell of a long time. Getting enough power to emulate the trillions of neural synapses is something that we are far from achieving.

http://www.top500.org/blog/an-83000-processor-supercomputer-can-only-match-1-of-your-brain/

Also jobs like doctors cant be replaced entirely by robots. The surgeons hand and muscle memory is far superior to what any robot could ever do. Besides, I don't think anybody will trust his life to a robot anytime soon. Robots will simply make jobs easier, not replace human workers.

https://www.tue.nl/en/university/news-and-press/news/new-microsurgery-robot-is-five-times-as-precise-as-a-human-hand/
Robots are inherently better than humans at surgery. You picked the worst example for this.

Ultimately whether or not it is possible to replicate the human mind in software form (doubtful imo but whatever), robots are expensive.  They're good for simple, high volume tasks like an assembly line where by volume alone you can still make a profit despite high operating costs, but for something like construction where you have a lot of varied, smaller tasks, and the division of labor is less economical and therefore less conducive to the individual niche of a given robot, humans are cheaper even when you factor in sick days and weekends and stuff.

Also, you have to pay humans, but there are operating costs associated with running a robot.  Power isn't cheap.

People freaked out about industrialization, the lifespan increased and people still had jobs.  People freaked out about computers.  Now most people own a phone and still have jobs.  People freak out over robots and...

Either way the rumba still hasn't bankrupted every cleaning business.  Whether or not you believe the brain can be programmed into a computer, I find it unlikely that machines can ever do much more than aide humans in most instances.

Everything is inherently emulatable. Anything can be emulated once you hit the level where processing power is good enough to emulate subatomic particles. The difference between this and industrialization is that there is no foreseeable job that can't be done by a robot (theoretically) so we must change society's values

I like robots. If we had the scientific ability to transfer someone's consciousness into a robot body, I totally would.

I can see no way that this wouldn't be a robot with all your memories and personality. (unless they plucked your brain out of your head, which is feasible)

On hand-made parts: They are typically of higher quality of what a robot can do because humans have eyes, where most robots do not.

Are you serious? lol

It'd be stupid to have a robot detect an imperfection, and then to have more robots set up ahead in case there are imperfections. It's a logistical nightmare.

If there are no imperfections anywhere earlier in the design process, there won't be a problem. Robots.

pretty much all discussion about "quality" is moot anyway because the precise robotics necessary to surpass even the most basic human work quality are far more expensive than manual labour

But they'll get cheaper, as personal computers did.

First off, calm the forget down. This is about more than "trembling." The human body is too complicated to just leave to a robot. Would a robot be able to recognize what exactly to cut in a human body? Would it be able to distinguish different organs and recognize the problem if something went wrong mid surgery? Would a robot be able to duplicate human interaction and provide a sense of calm and security in patients? I've talked to many doctors and medical students, and most tell me the same thing. Robots may replace a surgeons hands, they may be fully integrated to work side by side with doctors, but they will never be able to fully replace a medical professional.

I'm going to number your questions.
1. Yes. XRAYs and MRIs allow them to see the internal anatomy perfectly and make perfect incisions.
2. Yes. (using vision processing)
3. If the human is awake for surgery, they can take comfort in the fact that whoever employs the robot had withheld from using robots until they were made to be better than all (or most) human surgeons. (The same argument is made for self driving cars. Self driving cars don't need to be perfect, just better than humans)
Of course they could replace a medical professional. Watch the video, there is a whole part about professionals.

But, what if some starfish created a ultra electromagnetic field near a bunch of bots, would it disable them or what?

What if some starfish just shot all the human workers? Would it disable them or what?
Industrial espionage m8

Most labor jobs such as warehousing or mass production will definitely be taken over by robotic applications. However, there will always be jobs in agriculture, science, military, and a ton of others i don't want to think of mentioning.
There may be some robots within these areas, but humans will always be the majority.

If we're going to employ any robots in those fields (research, for example) then they will theoretically eventually replace all humans for their cost effectiveness (assuming we don't hit any laws of the universe or physics that prevent us from upholding Moore's law)

2937

Off Topic / Re: Humans Need Not Apply

« on: August 13, 2014, 11:41:34 PM »

well we wont see anything like that in our life time, and we'll probably not reach that point in the next hundred or so years. Humans are just so much more reliable, and for stuff jobs you only have to pay them about $21,000 a year and that's it, whereas a robot would cost you ten times that, would require people who knew how to operate and maintain them, and uber-complicated machines like that getting as much wear and tear as they would recieve would probably only last a maximum of ten years before needing to be replaced.

It will simply be more cost-effective to hire people at stuff wages forever.

Once again, robots like Baxter are general purpose and through machine learning will be able to do most tasks a human can do. These robots will get cheaper, smaller, and faster by the year. They're going to be economically viable much quicker than you think. We'll be seeing the effects of this shortly with the transportation industry, which will be revolutionized by self driving cars.

2938

Off Topic / Re: Humans Need Not Apply

« on: August 13, 2014, 11:34:57 PM »

Robots will not replace humans in the workforce.

The first real work I did as a laborer involved lifting buckets of grout/mortar and cinder blocks up scaffolding using a pulley (just a wheel, didn't make it any easier).  Toward the end the scaffolding got pretty high, and the elevator shaft we were building got to be over thirty feet tall.  Another laborer and I joked about how it would be so awesome if we had some machine to do the lifting for us.  Boss overheard and told us about a machine he saw another company using that did that.  Cost 10 grand.  You could keep me working for over 900 hours with that cash, and I can do a lot more than pull a rope.

Robots just cost a lot and can only do one or two things.  Humans can work for cheap (minimum wage hurts that) and be trained and retrained for just about anything and are so much cheaper and easier to replace.  Robots also have expensive updates and bug fixes where humans only have the one well tested and trusted model.

But if you really think that they will, invest heavily in some robotics companies.  Human unemployment will then be irrelevant to you because you'll be rich.

Well as robots like baxter (if you watched the video) are created and perfected, companies will be able to invest in labor robots that require no pay, for a cheap up front investment that will quickly pay for itself. Machine learning will excel to a point where 10k custom robots are no longer the norm.

2939

Off Topic / Re: Humans Need Not Apply

« on: August 13, 2014, 11:32:01 PM »

How do expect the machines to support our economy which is based around the buying of objects like phones, tvs, computers, coffee, food, and medicine. You need money to buy those things, and to get money you need to work. Yet you can't work if robots have taken over everything. The economy would tank or we would live in world were only the top 1%, a few programmers, and a few technicians would be able to live decently. Sounds like Marx's version of a dystopia.

If only the 1% had a source of income, the currency would become devalued immediately. Also if every job is getting replaced, most high level executives would probably be replaced (to where only the CEO is human)

I think we'll have to transition into a new economic model where people don't have to work for money, and where robots create abundance for everyone

There will be a large market for maintaining and programming these robots

2940

Games / Re: Super Smash Bros. For Wii U and 3DS Megathread: Meta Knight Confirmed

« on: August 13, 2014, 11:29:17 PM »

the halberd map looks exactly the same 2 me m8