Messages

2656

Off Topic / Re: What's your posting activity by time?

« on: August 09, 2014, 05:34:08 AM »

So here's a cool idea: use [img width=800] ... [/img] when posting pictures of something that's really wide on your page.

That way when people like me who are using 13 inch monitor screens view this thread, everything isn't annoyingly stretched.

2657

Off Topic / Re: Hot topic or Spencers?

« on: August 09, 2014, 05:28:05 AM »

Spencer's. Hot Topic tends to be full of the type of people I'd hate to interact with.

Plus, at least at Spencer's being poked in the eye by someone's mohawk or immense septum piercing isn't an occupational hazard.

2658

Drama / Re: So, what've I missed?

« on: August 09, 2014, 05:18:26 AM »

Also; just a note: I wasn't attacking you or your open letter when I posted my original comment about not needing documentation. I was saying simply that I have no issues with a lack of documentation. I don't find looking up functions to be a difficult enough task to warrant somebody else spending a lot of time describing everything to me. Obviously that skill came with a lot of practice that I only got because of a lack of documentation, but at this point in my Blockland programming career all the documentation I need is inside my brain or a quick trace() / SimObject::dump() away. Surely documentation would help new programmers. I wasn't speaking on their behalf.

And no, this isn't backpedalling.

2659

Drama / Re: So, what've I missed?

« on: August 09, 2014, 05:07:58 AM »

No, I cannot see that at all. In fact it if I had to choose one or the other, I would say it sounds more like you're trying to imply that feasibility is mostly irrelevant as long as something is technically possible given infinite time and effort. Maybe you should read your post again.

There is nothing that Badspot would document that would be any more helpful than a combination of these methods of figuring out how stuff works. It might make it easier because all you have to do is open up your web browser and search for a function, but it's not like documentation is necessary.

Maybe I'll interpret this for you since you're apparently unable to:
The functions that ship with the game provide suffice information about runtime and available functions. Documentation is not required to learn how a function works because of this; all it would do is make it easier to discover functions and their functionality.

And trace() is not like any kind of documentation that does anything. It is not documentation of any kind. A runtime description of program flow is not documentation and it never will be, and as someone who loves both debugging tools and documentation I somehow manage to find the very idea mildly offensive.

I never said trace() is a form of documentation. I said it helps reduce the need for documentation, by providing real examples of how functions are called and what their result are. Again, you need to read what I say and not make assumptions.

I spend most of my computer-programming related time in debugger tools or wading through documentation. I wouldn't say I love either of them though, they're just more tools in a toolkit. Just as I wouldn't love a hammer or a wrench just because it makes my life easier by not having to bash my skull against a nail or tighten bolts by hand, respectively.

Thankfully, GarageGames has always and continues to document its part of Blockland's code better than Badspot's part has ever been documented, so I really have no idea what you're talking about in that regard. One could crowdsource the BL documentation better than with a single forum if one gave a stuff (by setting up a wiki for example); but we both seem to be in agreement that one does not give a stuff, so I also have no idea what the deal is with your aggressively apologist stance vis-a-vis the not-stuff-giver.

I'm not quite sure what you're referring to here. Possibly the TGE examples that ship with the engine? Possibly their documentation of engine functions that aren't even technically a part of Blockland -- they're part of TGE. You haven't provided any information about the documentation you're referring to, so I really can't formulate a reply.

And please don't start introducing terms on my behalf like Badspot having an "obligation" to do anything; surely, we must already misrepresenting each other enough as it is.

I didn't introduce any terms on your behalf. I was simply noting that Badspot has no obligation to create documentation, so expecting him to do so when he already said he won't is a bit ridiculous.

2660

Off Topic / Re: Got hired at as a game dev

« on: August 09, 2014, 04:14:58 AM »

Bullstuff you didn't even go to college yet

In his defense, college isn't required to be a game developer. It might help, but nowhere near required. I haven't started college yet and I have multiple released games under my belt.

2661

Drama / Re: So, what've I missed?

« on: August 09, 2014, 03:53:07 AM »

It makes me miss good ol' 2009 when the community and game was fresh in my mind.

I'd say me too, but I keep regular contact with most of these people anyway.

2662

Drama / Re: So, what've I missed?

« on: August 09, 2014, 03:37:29 AM »

Defending the use of trace(), dump(), echo(), and searching this forum as a proper substitute for documentation, rather than a "whatever, good enough, I can live with it" kind of compromise, only proves to me that (in a programming context) you don't actually know first-hand what "documentation" is.

Are you trying to make some kind of poorly thought out jab at my programming ability? If you read my post again, you can see that the entire point of my post is that the existing features are enough to live with, not that they're a proper substitute for documentation. I even specifically said that documentation would make it easier.

Documentation is invaluable for libraries and APIs. Without OpenGL documentation, I wouldn't be able to work on any games at all. It's incredibly useful. I'm not even trying to discredit its value. The thing is, it's not Badspot's fault that documentation doesn't exist for TorqueScript. What you're demanding is like yelling at a developer who implemented DevIL for not providing a full reference on how to interface with DevIL. Badspot simply used the game engine, he's under no obligation to explain how to use it to us. The fact that the people responsible for documentation, Garage Games, failed to do so adequately before their discontinuation of Torque isn't Badspot's fault, and he's not responsible for it.

Thankfully, GarageGames did provide you with a tool that acts like mutable documentation that automatically updates. They covered their bases with their own functions by requiring a definition to define a console method, and provided you with a tool to figure out how other functions are called.

The only thing Badspot might be under obligation to document is his own virtual (via TorqueScript/DSO) additions to the game. He's expressed numerous times that he has no intention of doing so, though, so it's not even worth bringing up. Even if you were to convince half the forum that documentation should be made, he'd do nothing about it. There's precedence of this with the Ephialtes drama that happened not too long ago. Damn near half the forum, if not more, wanted his admin revoked. Guess what Badspot did? Essentially told them to go forget themselves.


Maybe, maybe I'll document his virtual functions for him. I can already tell it'd be a huge pain in the ass though, so I completely understand why he doesn't want to.

2663

Off Topic / Re: Steam's UI is gonna change (am i late?)

« on: August 09, 2014, 02:18:33 AM »

The profile images are squarer, the notification and play buttons are more green and sorta fade into the background, green and blue gradients are in the background (along with the Steam logo,) the chat box is blue on top, other people playing games and chat notifications are smoother, w/e

I swear that's still what it looked like for months.

2664

Off Topic / Re: Post real life pictures of yourself.

« on: August 09, 2014, 01:59:59 AM »

So like casual video games? o_o

The term originated from people who are hardcore gamers calling people who play mainstream/easy games "casual gamers" / casuals. It turned into a meme. Now the term is applied to anyone who is less hardcore than you in some way. So, for example, if you forget 5 bitches a week, someone who only forgets 1 girl a week is a causal.

2665

Off Topic / Re: Car thread

« on: August 09, 2014, 01:53:49 AM »

I still have 0 tickets with almost 2 years of driving under my belt. I dunno how I do it.

2666

Off Topic / Re: Post real life pictures of yourself.

« on: August 09, 2014, 01:48:18 AM »

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Casual&defid=4336665

A casual has been extrapolated to mean someone who isn't as hardcore as you are.

2667

Off Topic / Re: Steam's UI is gonna change (am i late?)

« on: August 08, 2014, 08:53:44 PM »

Is it just me or does that look exactly the same as it always looked?

2668

Off Topic / Re: Car thread

« on: August 08, 2014, 08:33:32 PM »

Get an evouque if you can afford it.

Also, nice. I want a BMW E30.

Some richard in a Range Rover almost beat me in a street race. It was scary how well he kept up in his cement box with wheels.

2669

Off Topic / Re: Post real life pictures of yourself.

« on: August 08, 2014, 06:19:11 PM »

P much. When it gets cold I travel somewhere that's warm cause I hate the cold unless I'm riding.

Says the guy who's moving to the Rockies.

2670

Off Topic / Re: Narcissistic Personality Quiz

« on: August 08, 2014, 05:50:27 PM »

That woulda been Wikipedia, but it's cited so we're all good.