Author Topic: I have lost faith in society  (Read 2875 times)

First off, yes, there ARE companies ran by the government, and I should have worded that differently, we actually have a mixed market system. But that beats the hell out of ALL companies being controlled by the government who can set prices and choose what to sell.

Ok, makes more sense now. I thought you were against the government having any part in the economy.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on a few things:
..we are becoming self-absorbed [...] This can be seen by the fact that most Hollywood celebrities would rather convert to religions such as Buddhism and Scientology, where they are not subject to any divine judgement. I do not hate/dislike Buddhists themselves, I am just saying that society has become too individualistic for us modern devotionists.  This is the very reason religions such as Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are fading away, the fact that people are unwilling to accept subjection to any divine judgement, and a good portion of people would easily prefer a permissive society where they can do almost anything they want. Permissive society is mostly weak minded in my opinion.
You equate conversion to religions outside of Christianity, Islam and Judaism as connected to being self-absorbed. Conversion to any religion happens because a person is either indoctrinated or convinced. People don't get up and say, "I'm going to join the Church of Scientology 'cause I'm not liking this divine judgment stuff!" It doesn't happen. Maybe a person could be put off by specific elements of their religion, like divine judgment, but saying that it is connected to an embracing of permissive society is a generalizing statement. I think all that you're trying to do here is impose your religion's (and related religions) superiority over others.
  Another thing that shows this is how a lot of mainstream music as we know today focuses on self pleasure and immoral aspects of society. Almost any shallow, no dimensioned song with a good beat and lyrics about fame, love, and drugs can become a hit these days. What happened to mainstream music that changed the music industry, that was well engineered, that had real artistic value and dimension put into it? If I dare show that I have a dislike for mainstream music that is played everywhere by everyone and express my own for a bit, I'll just be labeled as a "hipster", which is a very ignorant insult in many ways that I shouldn't even have to explain. I'm not trying to look cool by pretending to be against society, I have a true dislike for it.
Don't lose hope; there's people out there composing music with artistic value. I share your views on mainstream music; I dislike it and insults thrown at me because of that are ridiculous. However, as I'm sure you've figured out, mainstream music of the 50's is different than mainstream music of the 60's, which is different from the 70's, and the 70's are different from the 80's and so on. What's mainstream changes every couple of years, it's bound to get better. For now, my advice is that you realize that you are not the intended audience for mainstream music and move on.
  Another thing that is horribly bugging me is how a lot of youth today are also becoming more shallow and ignorant because of media and self interest. A good percentage of students these days would rather try to have love with others and focus on social relations than to learn important education from schools in which they can apply it to impact society in a positive way. Instead, some kids will like to think that politics and such are dumb because everyone argues so much and tend to ignore it and will most likely become a part of an uneducated and easily swayed electorate that will impulsively vote for the candidate who makes the most outrageous claims in the electorate's interests. This is the reason in my opinion why a lot of radical socialists are gaining support.
You're making a lot of assumptions here, first of all that the youth of today are actually becoming more shallow and ignorant. Your opinion-stated-as-fact here stands in direct contrast to the reality of things; more and more people are enrolling in college (http://nces.ed.gov/programs/youthindicators/Indicators.asp?PubPageNumber=22) than ever before, directly because of improved education opportunities (http://nces.ed.gov/programs/youthindicators/Indicators.asp?PubPageNumber=10). From that same website you'll find that dropout rates are decreasing, literacy is steadily increasing, and proficiency in most subjects in increasing. I do doubt though that this is the point you wanted to drive home. What you're fretting over here is that students are going to go off and vote for radical socialists. This is only a reflection of your fears of socialism, you've imagined a scenario and tried the best you could to apply it to the real world.
  Continuing with the youth, what has happened to the moral standards of most of them? The trend that the general youth population are becoming more and more ignorant and shallow as the years go by seems to apply. I see many people cursing out their parents on Facebook for a simple punishment they received for the stupidest actions, and then I feel bad because I see people who are angry over their parents for real issues such as divorce and such. It makes me sick, there seems to be no respect these days for the long lasting and moral foundation of the family. This is yet another thing I see permissive society doing, is trying to attack the structure of the family with its ideals, I dare you to prove me wrong on this.
You've put forward a claim with no integrity. Families have never been perfect, while you're complaining about the lack of respect for firmly-established family values you should be thankful that we've come so far. Remember the rulers who killed their siblings to gain power? Remember how parents of the 1800's beat their children regularly? There are still domestic disturbances, there's still divorces, there's still crazies out there who will kill their children, there's still child molesters, there's still conflict in this "perfect family unit". It's been there forever, it's nothing new. The illusion of a pure, perfect nuclear family is one we've knowingly deluded ourselves into. The worst thing we could do is force unstable families together. If permissive society is attacking family ideals, I don't see a reason why it shouldn't.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2011, 01:25:40 PM by dUMBELLS »

I can't wait for the eventual fall of society. I know I can earn my living as a fur trader and live comfortably for the rest of my life thanks to my survivalist training.

people pay mighty good for my domestic cat pelts ;D

hot damn this thread is a clusterforget of word-walls. all I see is
"society dumb"
"ya agree"
"no boodist is gud"
"no other regilion is gud"
"wtf socialism"
"yes soliacism"
"no somsikcalism"

I hate it because I live in America. A country built around freedoms and rights, where people have (or had) a voice. While in socialism, the government is the only voice. The living conditions are generally bad, (except for the government officials, what a surprise), it is pretty much the opposite of what made this country successful and a superpower over the last 250 years (though it is declining, from spending, spending, and more spending by the current government). Yes, you may say communist Russia was competing for the superpower spot with the U.S. in the cold war, but that was right after WWII, and what were the powers of before the war were reduced to ash. (Germany, France, etc.) Communism has always been the enemy of the U.S.

About the Cold-War generation of Americans knowing more about Communism, I never said that they didn't have a biased opinion on it, I simply meant that they understood what it was - the opposite of what we all know and live. Opposites cannot exist on this planet for very long. How could you say, "If I moved from America or other democratic/republican country to a communist/socialist country, with a government controlled economy, I would be happy."

You won't.

With the kids not giving a stuff, it seems that the percentages are growing with kids who do drugs, have love, and generally do not care about their future. Don't try to tell me that in the 1940s love and drugs, and the generally not giving a stuff about anything attitude was running rampant in middle schools and high schools.
I love you.

the traditional family thing started going away right about when woman started having more rights, and became men's equals.
but dont tell that to a woman, she would blame the media or some stuff.
the fact is; when woman were nearly property to prepare her man dinner and keep the house clean; it was easier to have that seemly perfect family structure.

so what values are you going to give up? traditional family? or woman's rights? they are incompatible.



People who are uneducated on what communism really is. Back in the cold war era, every American fully understood what communism was and how it worked, and how it doesn't work in modern practice. Today, I hear people (20 year olds, kids at my school, etc.) complaining about how horrible our government system is, and how it is slowly bringing an end to America, how a free market system is poisonous to human minds. They complain about life not being fair and that everyone would be equal if the U.S. were to convert to communism, and that life would be simpler. A kid in my school made a remark when we were talking about it, "Hey, that doesn't sound so bad, I want communism." Take note how this is an underachiever, a kid who would rather sleep on his desk than pay attention to the lectures. They would choose a government controlled market system where your life is laid out for you at birth, over freedom to speak against the government with out being executed, to choose what to do in your life and how to achieve it, to make it big, work hard, and live a happy life. I try to explain to them why they wouldn't want communism, but they don't listen, they don't care. They don't want to work hard to get big rewards. They want fairness.

The numbers of increasing socialists/communist supporters in the government and not are alarming.

You know, I have a big problem with people who don't know what communism is too! Wow, look at that, we're so similar. The part where we differ, though, (and this is the really funny party) is that you don't actually know what communism is! How funny is that? Don't believe me? Let's have some fun and make a list of what you think communism and socialism is, and what Marx and I think communism and socialism is!

You:
  • a government controlled market system
  • a society where your life is laid out for you at birth
  • no freedom to speak against the government with out being executed
  • the government is the only voice
  • the living conditions are generally bad (except for the government officials)

Marx:
  • Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
  • Common ownership of the means of production by the workers.
  • Centralization of credit in the banks of the state
  • Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
  • Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc.

Those were some of Marx's demands in his own explanation of his beliefs. Do you see how they have absolutely nothing to do with what you believe communism actually is? Learn to study history and actually understand the things you critique.

Besides, they have every right to want a free, classless society. Why do you discourage them from wanting freedom, and instead suggest that they should try and empower themselves through wage slavery and mindless servitude to oligarchs?

I can't wait for the eventual fall of society. I know I can earn my living as a fur trader and live comfortably for the rest of my life thanks to my survivalist training.

 Me, a Barbarian warrior.
I visit you on horse for long days travel.
I help catch?

 Unless you want to do 80's punk apocalypse theme.
Mohawks, a highway, and metal.