Events Replacement - How would you prefer?

[Reactor Worker]

There's no reason they don't. People who don't understand it or don't want it can use the default event system, people who want to use it can install the add-on. It's funny, because using a more complex system is easier than the current system. If you just want to make a door that disappears and such then the events system is perfect. But as you get closer to making more complex things, the simplicity of the current system bites you in the ass because it becomes much more complicated to make functioning things, such as a computer. VCE and the like might make it easier, but it comes back to the current system being good for simple things but harder to navigate and make larger event projects.

M's comments imply that the two systems could not coexist, thus user choice isn't a fair excuse for creating such a system.

My two many problems with the idea are:

• It will raise the barrier to entry for players
• It is an unnecessary complication

The first problem involves two barriers that will harm new and existing users; GUI(s) will be required to participate in the server and it will have a steeper learning curve than the existing system. It inconveniences and alienates players for minimal gain.

Why is it an unnecessary complication? Because you're trying to use eventing to accomplish what would be better served by a script made outside of the game. I don't think eventing was ever intended to be used to produce RPGs or to simulate computers. In doing so, you're being impractical for the sake of impressing people.

Gmod's Wiremod is a perfect example of the risks of implementing such an idea. It opened up a whole new way to build contraptions that the creator never envisioned, but it divided the community; it resulted in a pseudo-class-structure of those who knew how to use "Wire" and those that don't. It puts an incredible burden on players to find, download, and install the latest version of the mod lest they miss out on participating in the most active servers. Worse still, creations made using the basic tools of the default game are looked down upon as being primitive and unworthy of praise. New levels of absurdity have been achieved as now the "best" creations are made through some scripting language that then operates through components placed in-game; they have come full circle! And to what end?

My point is this: Yes, users may chose whether they download and use the suggested system but, given the pressures that would result from it being prevalent, they would only have the illusion of choice.

[Ad Bot]

[M]

So in the name of not alienating some users, we should instead keep on with the system we have, which is simple but still difficult to use (once you get some 30+ inputs or 60 outputs it is slow as hell) and has been maimed beyond recognition with strange hacks to make it do things it wasn't meant to (re: VCE), rather than making and using a better system.

"We shouldn't move to green technology because people will have to buy new cars"

[Destiny/Zack0Wack0]

I guess you're under an "illusion" of being unable to read our comments properly then. Clockturn has already explained that that is not what he meant by that post.

1) You won't need to download anything to play on the server or use the functions of any contraptions made with the custom eventing system. Only the host or someone who wants to make something in it will
2) Scripting is a much more complex. Eventing feels more natural to the game in general - and this will be NO MORE COMPLEX than the current eventing system in theory. It will basically just allow you to embed events and other features that won't change it extensively from the current event system, only make it easier to use.
3) So you're encouraging people to turn to scripting and then saying we shouldn't make this because it divides people by their talents? Oh wait, that already exists with scripting! There is already plenty of division of sub communities in the community already, such as people who can build, model, script or event. This would be no different.

If I understand you, you're basically saying people shouldn't be able to have an extensive feature, that no one will be required to use, because you think people will find it hard (which if it remains GUI based, it won't be) and therefore be discriminated because of that. You're forgetting one thing: the blockland community is already full of cunts. People are discriminated daily based on absolutely stuffty reasons.

[popman98]

I don't understand what you mean. Why would he replace the events, tey work fine. Maybe just add some search feature.

[Dr.Block]

I like the current event system the way it is, regardless of a new system's affect on the community it seems to me like said new system would be pointless. I'm also against turning wrench events into a text editor for scripting in. The nice thing about events is that you can use and have a good understanding of how to "script" with them without actually knowing how to script. Making it into a text editor would be over complicating it for no reason.

[Destiny/Zack0Wack0]

I don't understand what you mean. Why would he replace the events, tey work fine. Maybe just add some search feature.

Not he, us.
It works fine for 30- lines of events, yes. But once you start getting into more complex contraptions, it gets extremely hard. For example, try making a game with default events. It becomes a pain in the ass. Basically what this is brain storming is the concept of something that makes it easier to make more complex things.

In summary, the current event system is very simple for simple things, but complex for complex things because of its simplicity. We want to make something that is simple for simple things and simple for complex things.

[Reactor Worker]

So in the name of not alienating some users, we should instead keep on with the system we have, which is simple but still difficult to use (once you get some 30+ inputs or 60 outputs it is slow as hell) and has been maimed beyond recognition with strange hacks to make it do things it wasn't meant to (re: VCE), rather than making and using a better system.

"We shouldn't move to green technology because people will have to buy new cars"

That is exactly what I am suggesting.

A better brown townogy: "We shouldn't move to flying cars as people are clearly incapable of safely operating vehicles moving in two dimensions"

I guess you're under an "illusion" of being unable to read our comments properly then. Clockturn has already explained that that is not what he meant by that post.

1) You won't need to download anything to play on the server or use the functions of any contraptions made with the custom eventing system. Only the host or someone who wants to make something in it will
2) Scripting is a much more complex. Eventing feels more natural to the game in general - and this will be NO MORE COMPLEX than the current eventing system in theory. It will basically just allow you to embed events and other features that won't change it extensively from the current event system, only make it easier to use.
3) So you're encouraging people to turn to scripting and then saying we shouldn't make this because it divides people by their talents? Oh wait, that already exists with scripting! There is already plenty of division of sub communities in the community already, such as people who can build, model, script or event. This would be no different.

If I understand you, you're basically saying people shouldn't be able to have an extensive feature, that no one will be required to use, because you think people will find it hard (which if it remains GUI based, it won't be) and therefore be discriminated because of that. You're forgetting one thing: the blockland community is already full of cunts. People are discriminated daily based on absolutely stuffty reasons.

• 1. I'll believe that "you won't need to download anything" when I see it. M's comment (see below) suggests users without the GUI won't be able to event on any servers using it.
• 2. Given the crazy things people seem to be attempting with events and VCE, scripting isn't that much more complex than eventing and is likely a better choice for creating something as complex as a custom gamemode. The current eventing system is difficult to use in ways it wasn't intended for; the problem is you are trying to script with events.
• 3. The existing divisions in the community are at a level of content-creation outside of the game. It doesn't harm a players in-game experience if some users can make custom weapons or maps outside of the game. It does hurt a players in-game experience if they can't event because they are missing a required GUI or because the system is more complicated than necessary.

What I am saying, if it can be said any clearer, is that you're devising a "fix" for a problem that only exists because you are using the tools before you incorrectly. I am also saying that if you go ahead with this "fix", it will have a negative net effect on the community. The politeness of the community is irrelevant; you shouldn't be actively sabotaging the games accessibility just so you can avoiding learning how to write scripts.

That comment is, for the most part, about making the two systems compatible with one another side-by-side. (ie, people who don't have/won't use the client mod still being able to use the system)
This would be a ridiculous amount of work only to be giving a rudimentary experience to users who don't know about or refuse to use the mod, as is always the case with anything with clientside support. There's always someone, not catering to them makes you look like an starfish and catering to them is as much work as making the mod in the first place. It's like having to code polyfills to make your javascript work in IE6.

[Chrono]

I like the current event system the way it is, regardless of a new system's affect on the community it seems to me like said new system would be pointless. I'm also against turning wrench events into a text editor for scripting in. The nice thing about events is that you can use and have a good understanding of how to "script" with them without actually knowing how to script. Making it into a text editor would be over complicating it for no reason.

It doesn't have to be a text editor.
My example could be done with dropdown lists and such.

[M]

That is exactly what I am suggesting.

A better brown townogy: "We shouldn't move to flying cars as people are clearly incapable of safely operating vehicles moving in two dimensions"

• 1. I'll believe that "you won't need to download anything" when I see it. M's comment (see below) suggests users without the GUI won't be able to event on any servers using it.
• 2. Given the crazy things people seem to be attempting with events and VCE, scripting isn't that much more complex than eventing and is likely a better choice for creating something as complex as a custom gamemode. The current eventing system is difficult to use in ways it wasn't intended for; the problem is you are trying to script with events.
• 3. The existing divisions in the community are at a level of content-creation outside of the game. It doesn't harm a players in-game experience if some users can make custom weapons or maps outside of the game. It does hurt a players in-game experience if they can't event because they are missing a required GUI or because the system is more complicated than necessary.

What I am saying, if it can be said any clearer, is that you're devising a "fix" for a problem that only exists because you are using the tools before you incorrectly. I am also saying that if you go ahead with this "fix", it will have a negative net effect on the community. The politeness of the community is irrelevant; you shouldn't be actively sabotaging the games accessibility just so you can avoiding learning how to write scripts.

He means you won't need to download anything to play on these servers. If you're not going to be eventing on them, it doesn't effect you.

As for point #2, you just acknowledged that people are already doing some crazy things that go against the existing system, so why not make a new system that can accommodate for these things naturally? If anything, it will in fact remove one divide entirely while widening another by a small margin - the divide between people who understand the whole VCE logic system and those who don't will be gone, since the logic system will be integrated into the base and not some ungodly hack that's about as user-friendly as a bed made of lava, and thus will be considerably easier to use. The learning curve for basic events goes up by a little and the learning curve for advanced events comes down.

[Tammy]

The current events system relies heavily on engine code. If you make a new system, it's probably going to be pretty hacky and have a lot of glitches. Space Guy's events in v8 were a lot simple than what your proposing and they were still unstable.

[Planr]

I don't like this idea... Plus, wouldn't this mean the events in old blockland saves I have would break with this? It just looks like too much work...

[King Leo]

I support this.
As someone said earlier, the current system is damn near impossible to use when you're trying to do something more complex.
A textbased solution would also be very nice.

[Melting Plastic]

I envision a Flow Graph System where the building blocks of the flowgraph would be essentially the same as the drop-down lists we have now but with input hubs and output hubs depending on what kind of block it it.

An Input such as OnPlayerTouch would have input sockets for Player/Players (from a separate block called EveryPlayer or NamedPlayer) and Output sockets for A Boolean Trigger (On or Off), Player, and Brick etc..

something along these lines would enable more complex things to use less of these flow graph blocks by using wire to connect output sockets to Input Sockets. 

This wire could also pass things like lists of like-objects possibly.

[King Leo]

-snip-

Reminds me of Mindstorms. But making complex things may be a bit difficult..

[Big Brother]

copy pasting events would be sweet lol