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Doomonkey:

--- Quote from: Proog on October 31, 2012, 07:07:05 PM ---So what you're saying is League got unbearably worse?
Makes sense.

--- End quote ---
The longer a game lasts the more insanely people study the mechanics. When it comes down to it, nearly all games are math. You reveal the math and then find the winning variables. So a game transforms from wild to strict; play to work; brown townogous to digital as time goes on.

The reason why gaming companies don't change the mechanics or meta very often is because when the meta is unknown, then the game moves from skill to luck because one person may guess a better combination than the next.

Personally, I think finding the new meta would be fun and add a new level of skill which is the ability to adapt. But it doesn't make sense for a successful company to do so, especially when every meta would need a complete rebalancing of every champion. And LoL has over 100.

Proog:
Dota has 118 heroes, not all are ported to Dota 2 yet, roughly 90 have been added. They don't rebalance everyone based on the meta, they tweak them when they're being overplayed or underplayed all around. A change in the meta doesn't require everything being reworked, and it hardly comes to luck when you need to adapt your techniques once the enemy team knows what your routine is.

The thing back in Dota used to be trilanes galore, people always ran them. Once people started using heroes with escape mechanics and long range cs abilities like Windrunner and Clockwerk, people started to realize their trilanes weren't raking in enough kills to be worth splitting the exp 3 ways like that. They didn't completely cripple either of those heroes to make them unable to counter a trilane, they just had players realize this stuff isn't working, so they came up with something better.

It wasn't luck, professional teams do no rely on luck to win their games. If you think so, you really need to rework your view on drafting. The captains of these teams are professional, they have gone over the combos, lineups, strategies, counters, everything. If people start picking willy nilly with no composition they are going to get facerolled by anyone with half a brain.

Also, if heroes were balanced to only do one thing and just that, it would be extremely boring playing them. Going to go back to my example of Tiny, who was most commonly played as a burst damage hero using his spells. Around TI2, EHOME was making him do burst damage with his physical attacks because of how good his upgraded ultimate was, so giving him more farm than they usually do let them completely rework the hero without actually changing his mechanics at all. That's good balance, and also creativity/being able to break the meta. A permanent fixed meta is a terrible thing and I'm getting tired of trying to get it through. If your meta can't be changed and things are solely built around it, that's a big balance issue right there.

Doomonkey:

--- Quote from: Proog on October 31, 2012, 09:42:19 PM ----snip-

--- End quote ---
You didn't seem to understand what I said.

In every moba game there is a best strategy. Games are based on numbers. Numbers (mostly) mean 1 best answer. This best strategy is called the meta. If Dota 2 has no single meta, then it is either based on luck or the meta has not yet been discovered.

Once a meta has come about, it is required that the game be balanced around that meta otherwise some variations of champions/heroes will stomp others within the meta, severely limiting the competitive gameplay. If a new meta were to be created, then every champion/hero would need to be rebalanced.

Dota 2 has not reached a meta yet.

Jetlok:
sometimes
i just want to go ap top :(

Proog:
It's literally impossible to have the one perfect team for many reasons, considering you can ban good heroes, counter-pick their heroes, or just outplay them. The metagame is a strategy that teams use during a game, like a 4+1 strat where they have a really hard carry and 4 people constantly turtling so he can farm, or a push heavy strat with lots of early game power.

I could think of any 5 heroes that would have amazing synergy, as well as a team that counters it to not be OP. Hell, league goes against counter picks because they think it's not fun to have heroes good against the OP bullstuff they shovel in for money.

There is no such thing as a best strategy, the game is not balanced around these specific strats. A game is balanced around how the hero overall works with things. Centaur Warchief is a great example for this, because Icefrog reworked his ultimate to be a new skill. It didn't take people long to know it was stupidly good in any situation. It was nerfed within a week of being added because of that, so he wouldn't be a ridiculously top tier hero. Heroes in league suffer heavily from power-creep so they sell, only to nerf them when the next new bunch are out so people won't like them and then proceed to buy the new ones. This just leads to really shoddy balance that is intentionally focues towards that one thing so they don't function well in any situation with variety.

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