Unpopular Opinions V3

Author Topic: Unpopular Opinions V3  (Read 6610 times)

However, what I find ludicrous is people considering an assumption that concerns eons of time to be fact.  The fact is that it isn't fact.  It is speculation.  We can't even portray our modern history as fact–historians make attempts to connect dots and tell a story of what happens in the midst of historical events.  The role of "scientists" in the evolutionary field is closer to that of a historian.
Darwinism has nothing to do with that.

Yes.  But it is my firm belief that nothing that seeks to answer questions tending towards a philosophical nature belongs in the realm of science.

Science, as I proposed in its ideal form, is as it is supposed to be.


So stuff can't be scientifically proven but religious beliefs can?


How does that need citation? What evidence is there exactly about the origin of life on Earth?

Did I miss the evolution debate? damn...

Evolution vs. Creation debates are just stupid. No sides are going to budge, so why debate about it?

Evolution vs. Creation debates are just stupid. No sides are going to budge, so why debate about it?

The sides can't agree to disagree.

I disagree with there even being sides; the two have no reason to be at odds. Evolution is supported by a large amount of evidence. At the same time, religion seeks to answer fundamentally different kinds of philosophical questions. Briefly put, from a religious standpoint, the point of highest relevance is the existence of a divine force in creation, which evolution has no business with addressing, nor does it seek business to address. Even the current Pope believes that evolution could be a tool of creation rather than a spit in the face of creation. To clarify, I'm speaking with consideration of the perspective of a Christian, as I have little education of creation in other religions. Pretty much any believer of the Old Testament, save fundamentalists, would agree that the use of the word "day" in Genesis is not meant to be taken literally, and could indeed suggest any period of time. In fact, there are several examples in the Bible of where time is made out to be quite irrelevant from the perspective of the Lord.

The reason why we can determine the half-life period of carbon-14 is because we have sensitive instruments which can measure the amounts of the material to a high degree of accuracy. Since we know that the half-life of an isotope is always constant, we can observe the change in measurements over a period of time to determine the rate of decay for the isotope in question. The longer we study an isotope, the more accurate our readings can get. There is fair reason why this method is used and taught in biology and chemistry books alike. Carbon dating is not useful past a certain point, of course, when traces become small. This point is at ~50,000 years. More information can be found here and here.
The thing about radiocarbon dating is that it assumes that a certain amount of carbon-14 was present at said time.  With how flexible the atmosphere is, radiocarbon dating is based off of a loose variable.

As for natural selection, it's a means to an end which isn't necessarily the true answer, but the evidence is fairly convincing. It is, however, fairly ludicrous to deny the existence of evolution, in short, the idea that life changes overtime. The shortest and most compelling evidence is simply the pattern of fossilised life we can find in different layers of the Earth's crust.
I do not deny the existence and supporting evidence of micro-evolution.  Adaptation and minor mutations exist—that is undeniable.  Furthermore, the most compelling evidence in this area is undermined by findings of polystratic fossils.

Darwinism has nothing to do with that.
I'm not sure what you're trying to address.

So stuff can't be scientifically proven but religious beliefs can?
I have no idea from where you got the idea that I said or implied that religious beliefs could be proven and science not.  My belief is that pursuit of answers that seek to satisfy questions approaching philosophical nature is unsuitable in the realm of science.  An question such as "What is the meaning of life?" is never meant to be answered by science because the only answer that is true is true to the individual who answers it for themselves.  Life might mean one thing for me, and a different thing for you.  Does it mean the other is wrong?  No.  It's a purely philosophical question, and its answer is philosophical in nature.

When addressing the concept of philosophy, philosophy serves to lend solutions to questions that cannot be answered by science.  Philosophy is about beliefs, and beliefs are surrounded by holding faith in the credibility of an event.  The belief that distilled water will not burn is not faith, as it is fact that it will not burn.  However, when criticizing evolution in a purely scientific manner and pointing out its flaws as a scientific claim, many of its most fervent defenders claim after numerous holes have been found is "evolution is factual," which is a conclusion that has been derived from ill-founded ideas.  Creationism is the same way.  It does not stand as a complete scientific fact.  Both creationism and evolutionary theory (regarding the origin of the species and long term development of life) require a fair amount of faith in what credibility they have in order to regard either as fact.  That is why both realms, as I believe, are ill-suited to the field of science.

If you don't believe in evolution then the only other option is creationism, and religion is created with creationism, so it's usually safe to say a creationist is religious in some way or another.

Evolution vs. Creation debates are just stupid. No sides are going to budge, so why debate about it?

I personally like them because they're interesting and fun to be a part of, I don't expect them to change their views, especially with such a controversial topic. Even if it is in the form of trying to prove a side (that I don't expect to change), that's generally how a debate works.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 06:21:11 PM by Steve5451² »

I'm not sure what you're trying to address.
You're complaining about something, but your complaints aren't about the thing you're complaining about. Evolution, Darwinism, whatever you wanna call it, is fact. What you seem to have a problem with is only people who believe that it's the origin of most life on Earth (but not including the actual point where life actually began, because evolution doesn't even try to explain that). Based on the post where you originally mentioned evolution, that's actually pretty clear, but I didn't have a reason to read that before. I guess I didn't have a real reason to read it now, either, but I did anyway.

Data has been gathered to take into consideration and correct the effect of atmospheric changes (and other changes) in amounts of carbon-14.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_dating#Calibration

As a disclaimer, I'm obviously not an expert on this subject. Not that it really needed to be stated.



Polystrate fossils are a more special case. Their appearance does not undermine the idea that fossils in a stratum are indicative of the existence of an organism in a specific period of Earth's history. They form out of unusual sedimentation conditions. I had to do some quick research, but the more explanatory results were fairly conclusive:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polystrate_fossil
http://ncse.com/book/export/html/2842 (obvious bias, take from that what you will)
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/polystrate/trees.html
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 06:27:01 PM by otto-san »

I do not like hot cheetos.

Sarah Jessica Parker does not have a floppy richard.

Data has been gathered to take into consideration and correct the effect of atmospheric changes (and other changes) in amounts of carbon-14.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_dating#Calibration

As a disclaimer, I'm obviously not an expert on this subject. Not that it really needed to be stated.

I'm more or less speaking about the fluctuations in the atmosphere concerning the introduction of radiation turning nitrogen into carbon-14.  The atmosphere in our lifetimes is changing dramatically in specific regions (ex: the polar regions).  What I am saying is that radiocarbon dating should first take into consideration that presence of carbon-14 should not be taken as universal.

Another example:  Suppose forest fires occur in a carbon-rich swamp-like region.  This ash travels and lands in a field miles away.  Because there is extra carbon in the area, and thus more carbon-14, the field suddenly becomes thousands of years younger.  Migratory animals eat these plants and travel great distances.  It is now concluded that such animals lived earlier than they might have lived.




Polystrate fossils are a more special case. Their appearance does not undermine the idea that fossils in a stratum are indicative of the existence of an organism in a specific period of Earth's history. They form out of unusual sedimentation conditions. I had to do some quick research, but the more explanatory results were fairly conclusive:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polystrate_fossil
http://ncse.com/book/export/html/2842 (obvious bias, take from that what you will)
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/polystrate/trees.html
What I am more of less addressing here is that the depth of the layers does not ultimately decide the age of something because there are too many factors involved.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 06:43:32 PM by SWAT One »