The user known as Zanaran2

[Donro98]

okay so Alt is an starfish, and Zan is too defensive.

but you guys have literally all berated him immediately after he said he'd change. Sure, Zan deserves some of the blame but you guys are just as guilty.

You don't berate someone and then get salty when they get defensive lmao

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[Dreams_Of_Cheese]

You don't berate someone and then get salty when they get defensive lmao

That's the thing though. He said he changed himself by being less argumentative and to prove it, he argued with everyone. If he really wanted to change he would have stopped replying to alt and everyone (like I've been saying from the beginning) and actually changed.

[Donro98]

That's the thing though. He said he changed himself by being less argumentative and to prove it, he argued with everyone. If he really wanted to change he would have stopped replying to alt and everyone (like I've been saying from the beginning) and actually changed.

I get that, but when someone has literally just started to change you dont berate them immediately if you actually want them to change.

When someone is trying to fix problems, enabling them with the intention of testing them/proving that they're wrong, especially when one has just made/started trying to make the change puts you at blame too.


Change is gradual, and if you guys actually wanted change you wouldn't have provoked him immediately after he said he was changing.

Especially when Alt is just as much to blame for Zan's behavior because Alt is enabling him.

By berating Zan, you gave Alt a free pass to be an starfish.
A lot of what Zan said was tongue-in-cheek as well, such as using that image of internet arguments IN THE THREAD WHERE IT WAS POINTED OUT AS A PROBLEM, and the jokes at the beginning.

[Juncoph]

That's the thing though. He said he changed himself by being less argumentative and to prove it, he argued with everyone. If he really wanted to change he would have stopped replying to alt and everyone (like I've been saying from the beginning) and actually changed.

like donro said

it's not considered good practice to tell someone to change and then bait them into doing whatever they're trying to stop doing again

[Kochieboy]

I get that, but when someone has literally just started to change you dont berate them immediately if you actually want them to change.

When someone is trying to fix problems, enabling them with the intention of testing them/proving that they're wrong, especially when one has just made/started trying to make the change puts you at blame too.

Change is gradual, and if you guys actually wanted change you wouldn't have provoked him immediately after he said he was changing.

Especially when Alt is just as much to blame for Zan's behavior because Alt is enabling him.

By berating Zan, you gave Alt a free pass to be an starfish.
A lot of what Zan said was tongue-in-cheek as well, such as using that image of internet arguments IN THE THREAD WHERE IT WAS POINTED OUT AS A PROBLEM, and the jokes at the beginning.

Hmmm I dunno... maybe he could've ignored our "berating" comments instead of acting like a goddamn hypocrite. Like seriously, yeah we made comments, but he could've been the bigger man. He had his chance and he refused to take it.

[Qwepir]

Like seriously, yeah we made comments, but he could've been the bigger man.

Glad to see that you acknowledge you were totally in the wrong there.

[Donro98]

Hmmm I dunno... maybe he could've ignored our "berating" comments instead of acting like a goddamn hypocrite. Like seriously, yeah we made comments, but he could've been the bigger man. He had his chance and he refused to take it.

I'm not saying he isn't as fault, but so are you for berating him.

[Kochieboy]

I'm not saying he isn't as fault, but so are you for berating him.

The way you word it makes him look totally justified, which hw isn't, plus I made a observation on how most people who say they will change usually don't on the forums, he totally overreacts.

[kidplasma]

like donro said

it's not considered good practice to tell someone to change and then bait them into doing whatever they're trying to stop doing again

It's happened on the forum before, but it didn't take as long to notice.

[Donro98]

The way you word it makes him look totally justified, which hw isn't, plus I made a observation on how most people who say they will change usually don't on the forums, he totally overreacts.

but the way you all berated Zan makes Alt look justified. And I admitted that Zan is still at fault.

[Kochieboy]

but the way you all berated Zan makes Alt look justified. And I admitted that Zan is still at fault.

I wasn't trying to make Alt look good, I have never admitted to saying his character was good.

[Donro98]

I wasn't trying to make Alt look good, I have never admitted to saying his character was good.

That doesn't mean that your actions didn't, especially when you didn't say his character was bad.

[Kochieboy]

That doesn't mean that your actions didn't, especially when you didn't say his character was bad.

But I still didn't defend him, nor did I have to. Zan got what he had coming to him and he should learn to keep to his promises.

[Donro98]

But I still didn't defend him, nor did I have to..

That is a ridiculous way of looking at this. By ONLY attacking Zan, you definitely skewed the topic in favor of alt. You may not have meant to defend Alt, but you definitely did.

. Zan got what he had coming to him and he should learn to keep to his promises.

You don't get someone to keep their promises by immediately testing them before they have the chance to change, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY ARE ALREADY ON THE DEFENSIVE

[Kochieboy]

That is a ridiculous way of looking at this. By ONLY attacking Zan, you definitely skewed the topic in favor of alt. You may not have meant to defend Alt, but you definitely did.

While indirect... yes it may seem that way. But it is not intentional for it to look that way. I haven't had many problems with Alt, but I still feel like he could be less agressive and bait less as well. Zan on the other hand is constantly taking the bait that Alt dishes out, it's some obvious bait too, like literally impossible not to see. It derails threads and he doesn't have to take it, not now not ever.

You don't get someone to keep their promises by immediately testing them before they have the chance to change, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY ARE ALREADY ON THE DEFENSIVE

plus I made a observation on how most people who say they will change usually don't on the forums, he totally overreacts.

If he got irritated at this, he has some major ego/self-esteem issues.