Off Topic > Drama
The big word: Religion
Muffinmix:
--- Quote from: Monty on January 18, 2008, 04:44:22 PM ---Science never intended to prove religion wrong, it's there to find out why bacteria have fallanges.
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Of course it wasn't, but people continue to try to prove religion wrong with it, and there are those who couldn't give a damn and just go about their research trying to find a cure to hepatitis (god speed)
Swholli:
Wow. How did I miss this topic? Well then, as an agnostic I can very well say I am on the pretty much exact middle here. Allow me to expla- expand.
*Ahem*
I believe in God. There, I said it. And I can logically prove him... or her... or it. Scientists have been using technology for a few years now to examine the deep sub-sections of space. What they have found where little marks or "echoes" of the big bang, thus proving its existence. Now you're probably saying "But how does that prove God?" Simple. How the hell does a little dot of energy just come into existence out of nowhere and blow up to create all matter? Not by coincidence. Thats just silly.
Now eventually the matter spread very, very far, and a little blue planet began to evolve. From it little sea creatures emerged as single celled climaxs, er, organisms... and evolved further to a land creature, further to a reptile, further to a mammal, soon a monkey, and eventually modern day man. For more info on this, please see the up coming game: Spore.
Now, man was a very scared little creature, he wasn't sure what the noises coming from his "mouth", as he decided to call it, were. Thunder storms, earthquakes, fire... all of this scared him stuffless. He couldn't explain it. He had no way of explaining it, so over time once he learned communication he wrote down that "God" the almighty creator have must have made this flat land and the "sun" and the "moon" and all life. As far as he was concerned, it made sense.
Centuries went by, and though "God" changed slightly from one incarnation to another, his ideas stayed the same. Until a man known as Jesus Christ stepped up. Either he was crazy and didn't like the way the Romans did things and started saying he was the son of god, or someone else did it for him. Whatever the reason a brand new "idea" of God began, they dubbed it "Christianity" after that shepherd boy from Bethlehem that "died for our sins" Or so people thought. After that, it all went down hill.
The people who followed this idea, not all, but a majority thought that they were superior and no one was to defy their god. They waged countless wars over it, as well did other religions. They all began to take the ideas to seriously, when obviously they were simply written by that man from a while ago. The one who was scared of thunder? Yeah you remember him. They took his ideas of peace, and prosperity, and where did we come from, all wrong.
Now in the new centuries to later follow. From about the 1700's up to 2008 a new type of man had emerged. Scientist they called themselves. They after countless studies learned that the planet was not in fact round, we revolved around the sun, and possible evidence showed that we may have came from monkeys and everything started in a "big bang". This started something so much more worse than Christianity's. ATHEISM. Oh yes, it is a whole new hell. (no pun intended)
These religion bashing Atheists have it far more wrong than the Christians do. No God? Nothing? We all just ... popped? What? That didn't make sense. Now I'll agree they did have some things right, that God should love us no matter what we do, Jehovah's Witnesses are freaky, and that Church isn't necessarily a good thing. But that doesn't mean you should curse all people who believe in God or a higher power. Especially when you yourself, though you have some science to back you up, have no possible way to prove he/she/it doesn't exist. Christians have the right idea, be kind to fellow man, don't commit adultery, etc etc. They just should try to force their church and bible on us. And they defiantly shouldn't start preaching to us when we say we're not of their following. It gets annoying after a while.
My point of this rant, weather or not you agree with all ideas in it, is simply this:
God probably exists, therefore hell might... be good, the ten commandments are also the united states law... abide by them (though adultery's not illegal, its still not nice, you meany). Second, if he does then good, if he doesn't also good. No one is right no one is wrong. Third (and this is the most important) Please, PLEASE, don't yell at me for not being a Christian, its my choice, respect it bitch.
I've made my statement. Discuss if you like it, add what you want, take away as well, just explain your reason. And your reason can't be because its against your religion. That's just stupid.
~Scott
Linde:
--- Quote from: Swholli on January 19, 2008, 01:23:56 AM ---Wow. How did I miss this topic? Well then, as an agnostic I can very well say I am on the pretty much exact middle here. Allow me to expla- expand.
*Ahem*
I believe in God. There, I said it. And I can logically prove him... or her... or it. Scientists have been using technology for a few years now to examine the deep sub-sections of space. What they have found where little marks or "echoes" of the big bang, thus proving its existence. Now you're probably saying "But how does that prove God?" Simple. How the hell does a little dot of energy just come into existence out of nowhere and blow up to create all matter? Not by coincidence. Thats just silly.
--- End quote ---
Great, you just ended a debate that has been going on for the last few hundred years. Oh wait, how is that logical proof? Hmm, yes, since we don't know anything about the creation of our universe, let's just assume that it was sparked by some omnipotent being that was made up thousands of years ago. That surely is the only logical explanation.
How well does calling yourself an agnostic and claiming that you have logical proof of the existence God go together, by the way? Look up the definition of the word "agnostic" before you go flailing it around like an erect snake in the restroom of a gay club.
Since the rest of your post is largely based on that farfetched assumption, I am only going to correct some errors.
* Christianity was not a brand new idea of God. It's basically Judaism with Jesus Christ and the Trinity added to spice thing up.
* The word "scientist" emerged in the 19th century, but science, in the sense of drawing conclusions from systematical experiments and study of previous experiments, has been around far longer than since the 1700s, as has the idea of a spherical earth.
* Atheism is not at all about "religion bashing"; it simply means not believing in the existance of any deities. How is not believing in something, that can't be proved, wrong, when there is nothing to even indicate that it even might be true? Atheism was "started", as you call it, when people in general got access to more information and better education, and realized that there were obviously better alternatives for understanding the world than believing in thousand year old doctrines.
You end your message by asking us not to yell at you since you're a Christian, and to respect your choice. I'm not going to yell at you, but I am not going to respect your choice any more than I'd respect the choice of a drunkard. You obviously don't respect the beliefs of other people, yourself, anyway.
Swholli:
--- Quote from: Linde on January 19, 2008, 07:25:51 AM ---
--- Quote from: Swholli on January 19, 2008, 01:23:56 AM ---Wow. How did I miss this topic? Well then, as an agnostic I can very well say I am on the pretty much exact middle here. Allow me to expla- expand.
*Ahem*
I believe in God. There, I said it. And I can logically prove him... or her... or it. Scientists have been using technology for a few years now to examine the deep sub-sections of space. What they have found where little marks or "echoes" of the big bang, thus proving its existence. Now you're probably saying "But how does that prove God?" Simple. How the hell does a little dot of energy just come into existence out of nowhere and blow up to create all matter? Not by coincidence. Thats just silly.
--- End quote ---
Great, you just ended a debate that has been going on for the last few hundred years. Oh wait, how is that logical proof? Hmm, yes, since we don't know anything about the creation of our universe, let's just assume that it was sparked by some omnipotent being that was made up thousands of years ago. That surely is the only logical explanation.
How well does calling yourself an agnostic and claiming that you have logical proof of the existence God go together, by the way? Look up the definition of the word "agnostic" before you go flailing it around like an erect snake in the restroom of a gay club.
Since the rest of your post is largely based on that far fetched assumption, I am only going to correct some errors.
* Christianity was not a brand new idea of God. It's basically Judaism with Jesus Christ and the Trinity added to spice thing up.
* The word "scientist" emerged in the 19th century, but science, in the sense of drawing conclusions from systematical experiments and study of previous experiments, has been around far longer than since the 1700s, as has the idea of a spherical earth.
* Atheism is not at all about "religion bashing"; it simply means not believing in the existence of any deities. How is not believing in something, that can't be proved, wrong, when there is nothing to even indicate that it even might be true? Atheism was "started", as you call it, when people in general got access to more information and better education, and realized that there were obviously better alternatives for understanding the world than believing in thousand year old doctrines.
You end your message by asking us not to yell at you since you're a Christian, and to respect your choice. I'm not going to yell at you, but I am not going to respect your choice any more than I'd respect the choice of a drunkard. You obviously don't respect the beliefs of other people, yourself, anyway.
--- End quote ---
Well, obviously you didn't read a few things.
First off. Agnostic: The belief of a possibility, note that word, possibility, of a higher power. In my case I believe in god, or a god, but not the bible or organized church.
Secondly, I wasn't try to end the discussion, and I had logical proof. If you read furthur I said "Scientists have found marks or "echoes" of the big bang, thus proving its existence." Meaning to say, the big bang probably happend, and that matter can just appear somewhere without the help of something is almost illogical, weather it be a god or not, you can't just say nothingness can become somethingness by itself. I consider that proof of "God".
How is Christianity not a new idea of god? It wasn't around in B.C. times (note the fact it means "Before Christ") We've only recorded it to Ancient Rome. Thats when Jesus went against the Roman empire, and they technically "stole" Judaism the wrote their own version of it in the new testament. So yes, its a new idea.
Yes yes, I know that scientist have been coming to conclusions far long before the time period I spoke of. But I was referencing to the "Enlightenment" The time when people started to go against the long regarded truth that was science and government. I'm not sure the exact date of the enlightenment, I used 1700's as an example.
I didn't say that Atheism was all about religion bashing. This might be my only flaw I agree with you on. I was only meaning the Atheists who did religion bash, which sadly theres a large majority of them who do. I'm sorry I said that, and I have cleared it up for you. I hope. Theres nothing wrong with it, and I myself was an Atheist for a while as well. Then I found my theory, yes it is a theory, I in no way shape or from say it to be fact, the theory of "the big bang and god" so to speak.
I didn't end the thing saying that! I'm NOT a Christan! Thats what people yell at me for! Again, you obviously didn't read, and therefore made false statements. I respect everyones beliefs, I just think they do some things wrong. They have it right with global peace and all the ten commandments, I just think that imposing it on other people and waging wars in Gods name is contradiction. Note you thought that I didn't respect others onions cause you thought I was Christan, didn't you. Ha, And I'm disrespectful.
I've made my statement (again) hopefully clearing up what confused you, and what you read wrong, and what I left out. Thats exactly why I left it open for editing. Thank you. If theres anything else to fix, please tell me. I enjoyed your little comments. (Gay bar... ha ha.)
EDIT: After rereading your arguments again, you really did think I was a Christan. And thats why you disagreed with everything I said! Ha, trust me, I would never be caught dead in a religion. All the "isms" are so screwed up right now, I don't think faith is even involved with some people anymore.
Never. Ever. Would I go to church.
Linde:
--- Quote from: Swholli on January 19, 2008, 10:21:25 AM ---Well, obviously you didn't read a few things.
First off. Agnostic: The belief of a possibility, note that word, possibility, of a higher power. In my case I believe in god, or a god, but not the bible or organized church.
--- End quote ---
Agnosticism is the belief that whether deties exist or not it can not be known for certain. You call yourself agnostic and then in the paragraph immediately after that you claim to have logical proof of the existance of a God. Sure, you can believe in God and still be agnostic, but once you blurt out that you are certain that there is a God you are no longer agnostic by definition.
--- Quote from: Swholli on January 19, 2008, 10:21:25 AM ---Secondly, I wasn't try to end the discussion, and I had logical proof. If you read furthur I said "Scientists have found marks or "echoes" of the big bang, thus proving its existence." Meaning to say, the big bang probably happend, and that matter can just appear somewhere without the help of something is almost illogical, weather it be a god or not, you can't just say nothingness can become somethingness by itself. I consider that proof of "God".
--- End quote ---
I'm sorry to have to say this, but your idea of proof is really warped. Has it ever passed your mind that by that logic some other fairy tale character might as well have created the world? Perhaps Snow White or the Grinch.
When you actually have logical proof of God I am sure that there are a lot of philosophers and scientists who'd like to have a word with you. Believe me when I say that people have tried to find proof of God for ages. Even if you don't understand the point that I was making in my last post, you must at least understand that the answer to such an elaborately explored problem won't likely be revealed by a 14 year old on the Blockland Forums.
--- Quote from: Swholli on January 19, 2008, 10:21:25 AM ---How is Christianity not a new idea of god? It wasn't around in B.C. times (note the fact it means "Before Christ") We've only recorded it to Ancient Rome. Thats when Jesus went against the Roman empire, and they technically "stole" Judaism the wrote their own version of it in the new testament. So yes, its a new idea.
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Aha, so did you mean "new" as in "only a couple of thousand years old" rather than "new" as in "an original idea"? Because in the sense of "only a couple of thousand years old", that statement has no relevance to the discussion.
--- Quote from: Swholli on January 19, 2008, 10:21:25 AM ---Yes yes, I know that scientist have been coming to conclusions far long before the time period I spoke of. But I was referencing to the "Enlightenment" The time when people started to go against the long regarded truth that was science and government. I'm not sure the exact date of the enlightenment, I used 1700's as an example.
--- End quote ---
Yes, the enlightment was in the 1700s. I agree that this was the time ideas of atheism and science first were spread wide in the west, but the heliocentric world view was established in the 1400s and the fact that the earth is round was predicted (on empircal base) by Aristotle 300 years before christ. Charles Darwins ideas of evolution are from the mid-1800s, and the Big Bang theory is much newer than that, so all your examples are well outside the period of time you speak of.
It's hardly relevant to the discussion, but if you want to be taken seriously you have to get your facts straight.
--- Quote from: Swholli on January 19, 2008, 10:21:25 AM ---I didn't say that Atheism was all about religion bashing. This might be my only flaw I agree with you on. I was only meaning the Atheists who did religion bash, which sadly theres a large majority of them who do. I'm sorry I said that, and I have cleared it up for you. I hope. Theres nothing wrong with it, and I myself was an Atheist for a while as well. Then I found my theory, yes it is a theory, I in no way shape or from say it to be fact, the theory of "the big bang and god" so to speak.
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In your last message you called your [now] theory of "the big bang and god" logical proof. Do you realize the difference? I'd argue that it is not even a theory, since it there is practically no substance behind the claim. Let's forget that, though, since I already addressed it twice.
On what facts do you base your statement that "religion bashing" atheists are in majority? I'm sure that if you poke around a little, you'll find that less people than you think believe in God. Some people might even say that they do because that's what's expected of them. I'd say that most atheists probably are not very vocal about it.
--- Quote from: Swholli on January 19, 2008, 10:21:25 AM ---I didn't end the thing saying that! I'm NOT a Christan! Thats what people yell at me for! Again, you obviously didn't read, and therefore made false statements. I respect everyones beliefs, I just think they do some things wrong. They have it right with global peace and all the ten commandments, I just think that imposing it on other people and waging wars in Gods name is contradiction. Note you thought that I didn't respect others onions cause you thought I was Christan, didn't you. Ha, And I'm disrespectful.
--- End quote ---
Ah, I did read that part wrong. Sorry about that. But yes, you are at least as disrespectful of the beliefs of people as I am. Trying to impose your own beliefs on other people is part of Christian doctrine (look up "missions"). You obviously don't respect that, and you showed your disrespect for atheism in your first message.
--- Quote from: Swholli on January 19, 2008, 10:21:25 AM ---I've made my statement (again) hopefully clearing up what confused you, and what you read wrong, and what I left out. Thats exactly why I left it open for editing. Thank you. If theres anything else to fix, please tell me. I enjoyed your little comments. (Gay bar... ha ha.)
--- End quote ---
Thanks, I was very satisfied with that brown townogy.
--- Quote from: Swholli on January 19, 2008, 10:21:25 AM ---EDIT: After rereading your arguments again, you really did think I was a Christan. And thats why you disagreed with everything I said! Ha, trust me, I would never be caught dead in a religion. All the "isms" are so screwed up right now, I don't think faith is even involved with some people anymore.
Never. Ever. Would I go to church.
--- End quote ---
I did not disagree with you just because I thought that you were Christian. Claiming to have any kind of proof of God really does grind my gears, though, no matter what your beliefs are.