off loving sucks

[Legoboss]

isnt that what he said was a problem

sorry, wrong word- meant feinting.

[Ad Bot]

[Poliwhirl]

whats the point of attacking in street fighter if it can just be parried? why ever attack in dark souls if you can just roll away? every pvp / fighting game becomes exclusively based on faster reaction times and punishing unsafe options at a high level, and this game is no exception. almost every class has a counter-defensive option, and even if through some miracle somebody parries every single hit you throw out, (blocking hits still damages you) if you're playing any game mode besides the relatively unpopulated 1v1 gamemode, you will have teammates to back you up. even if that sends them into revenge mode, they are forced to become aggressive in order to take advantage of it, making it either a prolonging tool or quickly punishable. that doesnt mean its bad, though, because you can take advantage of it by using moderation and control with enough skill. the game gives you enough mix-up options that you'd have to be a god to react to and punish every single one of them. the game still definitely has some balancing and adjustments to make, for example unless im mistaken parrying doesnt cost stamina which it should (or if it does it should cost more) and maybe $60 is even too much. i understand the entire point of this thread is to be purposely contrarian, but i'll be damned if this doesnt sound like a review someone made after they got thrown off a ledge because they couldnt react quickly enough.

[kongo]

whats the point of attacking in street fighter if it can just be parried? why ever attack in dark souls if you can just roll away? every pvp / fighting game becomes exclusively based on faster reaction times and punishing unsafe options at a high level, and this game is no exception.

his point isn't about being able to parry / counter-block break, but rather how it's too easy to get parries and counter-block breaks

fighting games like street fighter, marvel vs capcom, skullgirls, etc, all make sure you have tiny windows to just guard / advancing guard / perfect guard / whatever, meaning it's generally a free hit if you just guard but just guarding also takes some insane reactions to consistently pull off, which is why being aggressive isn't nearly as easy to punish in games like street fighter as it is in for honor

[Mr. Bones]

i think for honor works the way it does just because the devs wanted to add a weird mix of realism into the combat or something, like in a real sword fight if you're very aggressive the other person could just half-sword and parry you and have at it with you, that might just be me though.

i think a big trick in the combat is to use chains/combos, and to keep your distance.  also i understand the microtransaction thing, but they aren't advertised at all and are tucked away in the store menu.  it's not advertised at all, i suppose it's just convenient for lazy people.  idk, paying for currency only annoys me if it's almost necessary to get any money in the game

[DestroyerOfBlocks]

whats the point of attacking in street fighter if it can just be parried? why ever attack in dark souls if you can just roll away? every pvp / fighting game becomes exclusively based on faster reaction times and punishing unsafe options at a high level, and this game is no exception. almost every class has a counter-defensive option, and even if through some miracle somebody parries every single hit you throw out, (blocking hits still damages you) if you're playing any game mode besides the relatively unpopulated 1v1 gamemode, you will have teammates to back you up. even if that sends them into revenge mode, they are forced to become aggressive in order to take advantage of it, making it either a prolonging tool or quickly punishable. that doesnt mean its bad, though, because you can take advantage of it by using moderation and control with enough skill. the game gives you enough mix-up options that you'd have to be a god to react to and punish every single one of them. the game still definitely has some balancing and adjustments to make, for example unless im mistaken parrying doesnt cost stamina which it should (or if it does it should cost more) and maybe $60 is even too much. i understand the entire point of this thread is to be purposely contrarian, but i'll be damned if this doesnt sound like a review someone made after they got thrown off a ledge because they couldnt react quickly enough.

if this stuff actually required reads or superhuman reflexes to pull off i wouldn't be bitching but the timers are just so loving lenient that anyone can do it.

   the problem is not that defensive options exist and that in some theoretical world they all work 100% of the time. parrying in particular is far, far too easy to do for what it gives. it and guardbreaking being the best options cause the games to be heavy defensive. unlike parrying in street fighter and perfect shielding in smash bros and whatever which are done versus fast and unpredictable attacks, the attacks you got to parry here are loving slow and you get a bigass parry me icon on your screen whenever anyone throws anything out. you are heavily overestimating the difficulty of parrying and counter guard breaking. as for "every class has a counter defensive option" if they do its not good enough to beat parrying or guard breaking or whatever. the only mix up you can do that isn't too reactable is play someone like warden who has two real forgetin fast attacks and pray the other guys reaction speed isnt up to catching both of em as he cant just hold his cursor in the direction of whatever your fastest move is because you got two

   having teammates to back you up makes the game worse since it devolves into button mashing bullstuff for the attackers who fully abuse their opponent's inability to get a hit in due to the sheer number of hits being thrown out. the devs acknowledge this fully which is why revenge mode charges every time you block and stuff instead of when you attack. you don't have to "be aggressive" to use revenge mode as you still can get parried and counter broked, its most important feature is the health regen. you need to explain how you can somehow go aggro with revenge mode by "using moderation and control with enough skill"

   also people roll away/sprint all the time in team modes

i think for honor works the way it does just because the devs wanted to add a weird mix of realism into the combat or something, like in a real sword fight if you're very aggressive the other person could just half-sword and parry you and have at it with you, that might just be me though.

i think a big trick in the combat is to use chains/combos, and to keep your distance.  also i understand the microtransaction thing, but they aren't advertised at all and are tucked away in the store menu.  it's not advertised at all, i suppose it's just convenient for lazy people.  idk, paying for currency only annoys me if it's almost necessary to get any money in the game

space is irrelevant because most attacks are parry-reactable and drag you right in front of your opponent. chains of attacks are almost impossible due to blocking and parrying

[Freek]

i would loving suck for honor

[JumboMuffin]

very interesting review, thanks

[Mr. Bones]

   the problem is not that defensive options exist and that in some theoretical world they all work 100% of the time. parrying in particular far, far too easy to do for what it gives. it and guardbreaking being the best options cause the games to be heavy defensive. unlike parrying in street fighter and perfect shielding in smash bros and whatever which are done versus fast and unpredictable attacks, the attacks you got to parry here are loving slow and you get a bigass parry me icon on your screen whenever anyone throws anything out. you are heavily overestimating the difficulty of parrying and counter guard breaking. as for "every class has a counter defensive option" if they do its not good enough to beat parrying or guard breaking or whatever. the only mix up you can do that isn't too reactable is play someone like warden who has two real forgetin fast attacks and pray the other guys reaction speed isnt up to catching both of em as he cant just hold his cursor in the direction of whatever your fastest move is because you got two

   having teammates to back you up makes the game worse since it devolves into button mashing bullstuff for the attackers who fully abuse their opponent's inability to get a hit in due to the sheer number of hits being thrown out. the devs acknowledge this fully which is why revenge mode charges every time you block and stuff instead of when you attack. you don't have to "be aggressive" to use revenge mode as you still can get parried and counter broked, its most important feature is the health regen. you need to explain how you can somehow go aggro with revenge mode by "using moderation and control with enough skill"

   also people roll away/sprint all the time in team modes
space is irrelevant because most attacks are parry-reactable and drag you right in front of your opponent. chains of attacks are almost impossible due to blocking and parrying

they're only almost impossible if your opponent is very good, or if you don't know how to get through peoples' guards. even getting in a guard break and a light attack is considered a chain, so if you can't even do that i think this is more of a personal issue and not the games fault, lol

why are you even comparing this to games such as super smash bros and street fighter? this game is nowhere near the same realm.

[Conan]

they're only almost impossible if your opponent is very good, or if you don't know how to get through peoples' guards. even getting in a guard break and a light attack is considered a chain, so if you can't even do that i think this is more of a personal issue and not the games fault, lol

why are you even comparing this to games such as super smash bros and street fighter? this game is nowhere near the same realm.

hes comparing it to less predictable, more thought out games like those two, since there's a more diverse cost-benefit brown townysis when it comes to playing well. his argument is that for honor rewards defensiveness too much and makes it too easy to get free hits in when being defensive.

[crazies alt]

i thought for honor was a darksouls multiplayer expansion thing

[RedGajin]

i think op's issue is being bad at being offensive. you cant just walk towards someone and mash attack buttons and expect to land hits. if you dont like your attacks getting countered so much you can: change directions of your guard when in combos, feint, cancel combos and dash to start a new one, or use more disabling heroes. shugoki has multiple unblockable disables/attacks. lawbringer has an unblockable/uninterruptible shove and throw. valkarye (although she is really hard) basically lives off of her like 5 unblockable knock downs. conqueror has his shield bashes. even the warden has the shoulder rush.

each person you play against is different, and hands down the best players ive gone against have been more aggresive then defensive. parrying and guard breaking are things you should easily be able to take into account when going against someone. standoffs can happen, but its usually the result of two players of equal skill level knowing what the other player is going to do and being able to counter them well. personally i think this is a lot more fun because then you have to think outside the box to outplay your opponent.

hazards in 1v1s are gay tho ill agree with that

[kongo]

why are you even comparing this to games such as super smash bros and street fighter? this game is nowhere near the same realm.

kimon was the one to bring up the comparison btw

both for honor and street fighter / super smash bros are fighting games though, and practically every fighting game's just guarding is much harder to pull off for the reason that getting one off is generally going to be a free hit

for honor is exactly the same in that landing a parry is a free hit, but the parrying window is so large that there's such a small amount of moves that are safe to throw out (e.g., warden's ridiculously fast heavy attack that comes from the left), and even then it's easy just to find out where the character's fastest move comes from and then you just block in that direction all the time

[Johnimiester]

destroyerofblocks being a friend of mine invited me to play wadanohara and the great blue sea in order to let me have a go at reviewing this game but instead i decided to post the steam chatlog between he and i on the subject. click the link to see it.
nevermind it's below:

Code: [Select]

sidosido: rejoice
sidosido: for i have finished
sidosido: wadanohara
YOU: is it the worst game youve ever played
sidosido: it is poorly made at most
sidosido: most of it was just mediocre
sidosido: as in incredulously generic
YOU: no sido
YOU: most of it was boring
YOU: the parts that werent boring
YOU: were bad
YOU: you can derive humor
YOU: from bad
YOU: you cannot derive humor
YOU: from boring
YOU: or this bad
sidosido: yes
sidosido: i agree with you
YOU: there are no positive feelings generated by this game
sidosido: except for that scene where she breaks down and is in a surreal gore land
sidosido: that was the only thing i was expecting from the game
sidosido: and it fulfilled
sidosido: but everything else liek you said
sidosido: was boring or bad
YOU: so is it the worst game youve ever played
sidosido: no
YOU: what is
sidosido: forget i don't know
sidosido: but i know that i've probably played worse
YOU: i doubt that highly
sidosido: oh well
sidosido: i don't see why this game pisses you off so much
YOU: i have
YOU: played bad games sido
YOU: i am an expert
YOU: on this stuff
YOU: there are bad games
YOU: and there is wadanohara
sidosido: that is still an opinion
sidosido: of course i don't have your discerning tastes
sidosido: there is not a lot of variety in the games i play
sidosido: at least right now
sidosido: given a variety of factors
YOU: a game exists to entertain
YOU: all other games i have played have been entertaining in some aspect
YOU: but
YOU: not
YOU: that
YOU: stuff
sidosido: again this comes down to why i have and haven't played
sidosido: i haven't played that many games that were so bad they were good
sidosido: except in the case of them being intentionally so bad they were good
sidosido: what i have and haven't played*
sidosido: do you know who boobst is
YOU: no
sidosido: i think he was able to guess the password for the suburbia server
sidosido: it is pretty bad though
sidosido: i will
sidosido: give you that
YOU: i dont think you can even feel anger
sidosido: admittedly i barely payed attention
sidosido: during the last parts of the game
sidosido: the climax of any strong feeling i had was when the white dolphin
sidosido: was apparently the main antagonist
sidosido: and the game went a complete 180
sidosido: in teh worst way possible
sidosido: the rest of it after that is just
sidosido: a blur
sidosido: are you really going to penalize me
sidosido: for having an opinion
YOU: yes
YOU: you did not take in the full terrible power of wadanohara
sidosido: i don't care you
sidosido: just like the majority of people
sidosido: don't care
YOU: they should care
sidosido: are you going to call them normies
sidosido: for not caring enough
YOU: i can say the same about your political affiliations
sidosido: that is true
sidosido: i mean i can tell how stupid how a lot of the decisions made were
sidosido: like how that one scene with samekichi being dragged off
sidosido: was basically do this or die and be forced to do the other option
sidosido: or how the three different endings just involved pressing continue
sidosido: and doing the other option
sidosido: or how batstuff crazy the twist was
sidosido: assumedly you agree with all of that
YOU: it was all
YOU: so
YOU: bad
sidosido: this was all obviously a perfect storm scenario in a limited way
sidosido: where this obviously tried to be a visual novel
sidosido: but instead compressed it into rpg form
sidosido: with the rpg mechanics being essentially non-existant
sidosido: and how the story that tried to be a visual novel wasn't good at all
sidosido: or entertaining
sidosido: and was instead generic
sidosido: to the point of no return
YOU: generic implies it matches up with some sort of standard of good
YOU: it was far from generi c
sidosido: perhaps i should use another word then
sidosido: perhaps i mean
sidosido: cliche
sidosido: how is that
YOU: it was beyond cliche
YOU: every single character was terrible
YOU: all
YOU: of
YOU: them
YOU: the story was so bad you actually noticed how bad it was
YOU: the combat was tacked on and a waste of time
YOU: the music was amateur touhou impersonation in a bad wa
YOU: y
sidosido: thank you for helping me to put my points
sidosido: into words
YOU: not even the art was salvagabl
YOU: e
YOU: the only thing
YOU: worth noting
YOU: was that it had a color scheme that made everyone look like theyre cave people
sidosido: it was that cliche cutesy animu style
YOU: it was bad
sidosido: yes
YOU: it was
YOU: so
YOU: bad
sidosido: i have an idea for the wadanahara post i will make
sidosido: in that i will copy and paste this chat log
sidosido: and just plop it into a text document and upload it
sidosido: and put it in the off is bad thread
sidosido: is that okay
YOU: i dont know
YOU: i expected you to hav e a strong opinion
YOU: but i must throw in the towel
sidosido: okay well
sidosido: prepare for this to be uploaded to the blf
sidosido: in lieu of me writing a full reviewessentially the game despite looking cute is bad if not terrible. don't play it.

[Hansome duded]

do earthbound already you doodie head

[Trogtor]

i rarely play anyone who can parry all of my attacks. i can easily parry anyone's attack and use the uncountable guard break to land a side heavy. that's my strategy

but I'm a sucker to anyone who feints because i always go for a parry