Author Topic: Programming Megathread (Read 106385 times)

Foxscotch · May 12, 2016, 06:04:31 PM

Quote from: McJob on May 12, 2016, 05:42:15 PM

The problem is that you have no access to autocomplete, debugging tools, automatic generation of makefiles and all that bollocks if you're not using an IDE. It's like you're trying to handicap yourself.

there are certainly command line tools for the last two things, and for someone who doesn't like it, autocomplete may be more of a handicap than not using it

Quote from: Kingdaro on May 12, 2016, 05:50:50 PM

I can't tell whether or not you've actually used Atom or Sublime Text before.
https://atom.io/packages/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=debug
https://packagecontrol.io/search/debug

I think he's talking about specifically blueblur, who uses emacs

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Kingdaro · May 12, 2016, 06:17:40 PM

Quote from: Foxscotch on May 12, 2016, 06:04:31 PM

autocomplete may be more of a handicap than not using it

It is for me. I've tried a variety of settings for it to reduce the delay and the # of characters for it to pop up on, but I always end up turning it off.

Quote from: Foxscotch on May 12, 2016, 06:04:31 PM

I think he's talking about specifically blueblur, who uses emacs

Emacs has a stuffton of extensions and stuff available for it too, does it not?

Foxscotch · May 12, 2016, 06:18:36 PM

Quote from: Kingdaro on May 12, 2016, 06:17:40 PM

Emacs has a stuffton of extensions and stuff available for it too, does it not?

I was gonna add that I was sure emacs and vim have autocomplete extensions, but I don't actually know, so I didn't, lol

blueblur121 · May 12, 2016, 07:25:02 PM

Quote from: McJob on May 12, 2016, 05:42:15 PM

The problem is that you have no access to autocomplete, debugging tools, automatic generation of makefiles and all that bollocks if you're not using an IDE. It's like you're trying to handicap yourself.

What are you talking about?
That's all there, just as individual tools that aren't built into the editor. (except autocomplete which is available in many forms in emacs)
And emacs has a lot of that anyway, and for the stuff it doesn't have, there's extensions.

Quote from: ZSNO on May 12, 2016, 06:01:05 PM

Fight my professors who say that, including the one that hand grades 60 students' project code line by line.

~~I don't care about what your professors say.~~ I'm stupid
Anything an IDE can do can be achieved without one.

Steve5451� · May 12, 2016, 07:26:48 PM

Quote from: Pecon on May 10, 2016, 12:45:07 AM

Backing this up. Am programmer, like having my braces on individual lines.

This is sick and wrong.

Quote from: McJob on May 12, 2016, 05:42:15 PM

The problem is that you have no access to autocomplete, debugging tools, automatic generation of makefiles and all that bollocks if you're not using an IDE. It's like you're trying to handicap yourself.

I've never found autocomplete all that useful.

ZSNO · May 12, 2016, 07:34:06 PM

Quote from: blueblur121 on May 12, 2016, 07:25:02 PM

Anything an IDE can do can be achieved without one.

Yes, you can do anything an IDE can do without one. The point is you're wasting your time if you have to constantly be switching the tools you're using.

Quote from: blueblur121 on May 12, 2016, 07:25:02 PM

I don't care about what your professors say.

You should probably lose that attitude really fast if you plan on learning anything.

blueblur121 · May 12, 2016, 07:44:01 PM

Quote from: ZSNO on May 12, 2016, 07:34:06 PM

Yes, you can do anything an IDE can do without one. The point is you're wasting your time if you have to constantly be switching the tools you're using.

Switching between them isn't even an issue if you're using a decent WM and terminal.

Quote from: ZSNO on May 12, 2016, 07:34:06 PM

You should probably lose that attitude really fast if you plan on learning anything.

Sorry, I was keeping the "fight me" thing going.

ZSNO · May 12, 2016, 07:47:12 PM

Btw, you do realize that emacs is literally used as an example of an IDE on Wikipedia, right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_development_environment#History

McJob · May 12, 2016, 07:47:32 PM

Quote from: blueblur121 on May 12, 2016, 07:25:02 PM

My point is that the role of an IDE is to make your life easier and faster. We're often working on massive applications with thousands of lines of code, and so it helps to have tools directly integrated into your editor and a bunch of useful features that you can take advantage of if you'd like.

You probably won't use all the tools given, like Steve doesn't really care for autocomplete and I don't really use Visual Studio's GitHub/Emulator stuff, but you have to admit that's really handy to have the options available to you at least, mate.

blueblur121 · May 12, 2016, 07:50:47 PM

Quote from: ZSNO on May 12, 2016, 07:47:12 PM

Btw, you do realize that emacs is literally used as an example of an IDE on Wikipedia, right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_development_environment#History

It's listed as an extensible editor that is commonly used as an IDE. That supports something I said earlier, that emacs is a text editor that can be made to have the features and functionality of an IDE. The same thing applies to vim for those who use it.

EDIT: Also
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_development_environment#Attitudes_across_different_computing_platforms

Quote

Unix programmers can combine command-line POSIX tools into a complete development environment, capable of developing large programs such as the Linux kernel and its environment.[4] The free software GNU tools (GNU Compiler Collection (GCC), GNU Debugger (gdb), and GNU make) are available on many platforms, including Windows.[5] Developers who favor command-line oriented tools can use editors with support for many of the standard Unix and GNU build tools, building an IDE with programs like Emacs[6][7][8] or Vim.

I guess it depends on your definition of IDE.

Kingdaro · May 12, 2016, 07:54:51 PM

Quote from: McJob on May 12, 2016, 07:47:32 PM

My point is that the role of an IDE is to make your life easier and faster. We're often working on massive applications with thousands of lines of code, and so it helps to have tools directly integrated into your editor and a bunch of useful features that you can take advantage of if you'd like.

You probably won't use all the tools given, like Steve doesn't really care for autocomplete and I don't really use Visual Studio's GitHub/Emulator stuff, but you have to admit that's really handy to have the options available to you at least, mate.

Sure, it's handy, but to imply you need one to do anything productive is a really ignorant thing to say. Mostly directed @ZSNO.

ZSNO · May 12, 2016, 08:05:52 PM

Quote from: Kingdaro on May 12, 2016, 07:54:51 PM

Sure, it's handy, but to imply you need one to do anything productive is a really ignorant thing to say. Mostly directed @ZSNO.

It seems like you should be someone supporting the use of IDEs since you discourage people from making game engines. Don't reinvent the wheel philosophy, right?

Kingdaro · May 12, 2016, 08:16:49 PM

Quote from: ZSNO on May 12, 2016, 08:05:52 PM

It seems like you should be someone supporting the use of IDEs since you discourage people from making game engines. Don't reinvent the wheel philosophy, right?

That has nothing to do this, good sir! Using a normal text editor over an IDE isn't "reinventing the wheel", it's using a different set of tools to accomplish the same thing. To correct your brown townogy a bit more, using a text editor over an IDE would be the same as using a simple library like SDL or SFML over a fully-featured engine like Unity to make a 2D platformer.

blueblur121 · May 12, 2016, 09:06:16 PM

Quote from: ZSNO on May 12, 2016, 08:05:52 PM

It seems like you should be someone supporting the use of IDEs since you discourage people from making game engines. Don't reinvent the wheel philosophy, right?

It's just about preference. I prefer to use many tools because I can switch between them way more easily than most people due to the fact that I use a window manager that encourages keyboard window management. I don't have to grab the mouse and switch to a different window. I just move my focus over and keep going. IMO, the way I do it is actually faster than if I had to navigate menus and things with a mouse because everything I need is within a few keystrokes.

In a way, my entire X session is my IDE.

Foxscotch · May 12, 2016, 09:25:33 PM

Quote from: ZSNO on May 12, 2016, 08:05:52 PM

It seems like you should be someone supporting the use of IDEs since you discourage people from making game engines. Don't reinvent the wheel philosophy, right?

do you really think that's a good comparison? choosing not to use an IDE has absolutely nothing to do with reinventing the wheel