POLITICS & DONALD Annoying Orange MEGATHREAD

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Foxscotch:

--- Quote from: Psych36 on July 27, 2016, 10:11:23 PM ---No, it doesn't violate the first amendment. The constitution only applies to citizens of the United States so we can't discriminate those that are already naturalized citizens. If they are foreign citizens we have the right to block entry since they aren't naturalized citizens and aren't entitled to the rights of a citizen.

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if you think that's how it should work then you're really missing the point. the spirit of the law means much more* than the word of it

*to anyone who isn't trying to take advantage of it

Psych36:

--- Quote from: Ipquarx on July 27, 2016, 10:16:02 PM ---here is the full text of the first amendment:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
to create a law that would prevent muslims from entering would be creating a law respecting an establishment of religion
it's that simple

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Did you not read the part where I stated that the constitution doesn't apply to non citizens? It's really that simple. The United States can decide who it wants to enter and who it doesn't especially in a time of war or crCIA. Nobody is entitled to come to the U.S. The question was not whether it's morally correct to ban all muslims it's whether it's legal and the answer to that is yes

As a sovereign nation, the United States government has always had undoubted authority to decide who may enter the country, and the conditions for entry by those who seek it. It has long been understood that most of this power lies with Congress, under its authority to decide who may become a citizen and its power over foreign commerce. The president and the Executive Branch share some of this authority, through the power to manage foreign relations, globally and with individual nations.

Several lawyers have said that Annoying Orange's plan can be carried out. It could be challenged in court but it's within the confines of the rules.

Ipquarx:

--- Quote from: Psych36 on July 27, 2016, 10:21:59 PM ---Did you not read the part where I stated that the constitution doesn't apply to non citizens? It's really that simple.
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The part of the amendment I'm talking about is not about citizens, it's about laws. To create a law concerning an establishment of religion is unconstitutional, it does not matter any other content of the law, simply that it concerns an establishment of religion, and you're even wrong about the whole "non-citizens don't get constitutional rights" thing.

--- Quote from: otto-san on July 27, 2016, 10:18:18 PM ---https://ricochet.com/archives/constitutional-rights-for-non-citizens/

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--- Quote from: Bisjac on July 27, 2016, 10:17:51 PM ---we can just ban entry from anyone from a in-conflict country then.
:D

there are a billion loopholes to keep them out.

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But that's just stupid, you'd literally be saying "Dying because you're caught in the middle of a civil war you want nothing to do with? Nope. Denied." to tens of thousands of people irregardless of where they come from. All you have to do is do a thorough screening. Canada literally did this, we let in 50,000 people and they've integrated, gotten jobs and been model citizens.

Psych36:

--- Quote from: Ipquarx on July 27, 2016, 10:25:44 PM ---The part of the amendment I'm talking about is not about citizens, it's about laws. To create a law concerning an establishment of religion is unconstitutional, it does not matter any other content of the law, simply that it concerns an establishment of religion, and you're even wrong about the whole "non-citizens don't get constitutional rights" thing.But that's just stupid, you'd literally be saying "Dying because you're caught in the middle of a civil war you want nothing to do with? Nope. Denied." to tens of thousands of people irregardless of where they come from. All you have to do is do a thorough screening. Canada literally did this, we let in 50,000 people and they've integrated, gotten jobs and been model citizens.

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I'm not arguing on how people feel about it i'm simply stating that it's legal and many lawyers think so.

Ipquarx:

--- Quote from: Psych36 on July 27, 2016, 10:27:13 PM ---
I'm not arguing on how people feel about it i'm simply stating that it's legal and many lawyers think so.

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Lawyers disagree on things all the time, because they're human beings. They're all subject to the same biases we are. What matters is what's said in the constitution and previous supreme court rulings, which clearly indicate that no, it is not legal, it is unconstitutional.

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