Apparently illegal immigrants are now getting accepted to vote against Annoying Orange.

[Frequency]

I literally cannot follow your reasoning here. You say that illegal immigrants are costing us $4.2 billion a year in unpaid taxes. Fact-checking aside, how do you go from that piece of information to paying for a wall?

Well assume the country is no longer losing $4.2 billion a year. that's 4.2 billion a year saved that can go towards other things...

Remittances to China and India total more than those to Mexico. Having people sending money from the US to other countries is a sign of economic interdependence, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. You can lower those remittances by opening the path to naturalization, which is sure as hell a more practical solution than a wall.

Is the wall still impractical if you do both? also, isn't it still economically damaging to have people here illegally and working for money and then sending it back to their country, out of our own loop? specifically with Mexico, but if that's going on with citizens from other countries, wouldn't stopping or slowing that be helpful too?

[Ad Bot]

[SeventhSandwich]

Well assume the country is no longer losing $4.2 billion a year. that's 4.2 billion a year saved that can go towards other things...

I don't think you understand what he's talking about. Donald Annoying Orange is saying that we have illegal immigrants who should be paying $4.2 billion a year in taxes. If you deport them, surprise, you're still out $4.2 billion in taxes, it's just that the people who weren't paying them are no longer here. In fact, the only way that you're going to make that $4.2 billion is by offering them citizenship so that they can pay those taxes.

In short, deportation or no, you're not getting any extra money here.

also, isn't it still economically damaging to have people here illegally and working for money and then sending it back to their country, out of our own loop?

It is, but we still have NAFTA, so I'm guessing that the powers at be have decided it's a worthwhile trade-off.

if that's going on with citizens from other countries, wouldn't stopping or slowing that be helpful too?

Not really, no. If we impound people's remittances, those workers no longer have an incentive to work here. They leave and we lose human capital that was otherwise productive in our economy.

[Frequency]

I don't think you understand what he's talking about. Donald Annoying Orange is saying that we have illegal immigrants who should be paying $4.2 billion a year in taxes. If you deport them, surprise, you're still out $4.2 billion in taxes, it's just that the people who weren't paying them are no longer here. In fact, the only way that you're going to make that $4.2 billion is by offering them citizenship so that they can pay those taxes.

In short, deportation or no, you're not getting any extra money here.

Ah, I see. But by deporting them, you're getting rid of illegal immigrants who are benefiting from our country without paying for it. This actually goes in hand with remittance, because they would be back in their country in their own economy's circle. With that in mind, you would definitely see an decrease in losses in the long run.

Then again, I'm not an economist.

Not really, no. If we impound people's remittances, those workers no longer have an incentive to work here. They leave and we lose human capital that was otherwise productive in our economy.

But don't you then have some jobs available for American workers who are out of a job? More stimulation for our own economy, right?

of course, since you're referring to countries besides Mexico, it may be better off to leave that as is, or at the least not make drastic changes to the current situation.

[IkeTheGeneric]

With that in mind, you would definitely see an decrease in losses in the long run.

Nothing substantial enough for the immense cost to build a useless wall, maintain it and train an entire force to help guard it.

[SeventhSandwich]

Ah, I see. But by deporting them, you're getting rid of illegal immigrants who are benefiting from our country without paying for it.

They're benefiting from the fact that labor here is valued higher. Illegal immigrants do not have a social security card and thus do not receive benefits like social security, medicare, welfare, etc. They can still use the ER, but that's just a public health concern.

They would also gladly pay taxes in return for naturalization. The Mexican dishwashers getting paid 'under-the-table' sure as hell aren't receiving the Federal minimum wage, so it's in their best interest to seek citizenship anyway.

With that in mind, you would definitely see an decrease in losses in the long run.

A decrease in remittances, yes, because there will be fewer Mexican citizens staying in the United States.

But don't you then have some jobs available for American workers who are out of a job? More stimulation for our own economy, right?

The 'finite jobs' argument is literally the most misinterpreted thing in economics ever. The economy produces more jobs when people are working. Regardless of whether illegal immigrants are filling the jobs or not, having more people working will lead to economic growth. Immigrant waves have always been predictive of periods of economic growth.

That being said, it is a myth that illegal immigrants only take the jobs that other illegal immigrants are doing. There are plenty of white people who want to work as house maids and dishwashers. But the fact of the matter is that the only leg up that they have on you is the fact that they are illegal and do not have to be paid minimum wage. You have the economic, educational, and, unfortunately, racial advantage here. They will no longer have the advantage of being paid a lower wage if they're allowed to pursue citizenship.

[SetGaming]

Nothing substantial enough for the immense cost to build a useless wall, maintain it and train an entire force to help guard it.

use the illegal immigrants to guard the wall

wait

[otto-san]

also i'd like to know the source of the costs in "unpaid taxes," because that's somewhat a ambiguous term. does that refer to the amount of money that the federal government is spending in total on illegal immigrants, or is it just the lost opportunity for revenue? because one is a true deficit and the other isn't. i'd also be interested in knowing how that number can be recorded if they're off the books, so to speak

[TristanLuigi]

I don't think you understand what he's talking about. Donald Annoying Orange is saying that we have illegal immigrants who should be paying $4.2 billion a year in taxes. If you deport them, surprise, you're still out $4.2 billion in taxes, it's just that the people who weren't paying them are no longer here. In fact, the only way that you're going to make that $4.2 billion is by offering them citizenship so that they can pay those taxes.

In short, deportation or no, you're not getting any extra money here.

This is how I see it. The best thing to do is just make immigration and integration much easier so we can start benefiting from the people who clearly want to live in the United States (via am increased workforce and taxes).

But I can't imagine ever getting that past Congress.

[Alternat¡ve]

Build build wall up up up

Illegals illegals out out out

[Biostorm]

Build build wall up up up

Illegals illegals out out out

10 feet higher

10 feet higher

10 feet higher

[Frequency]

Nothing substantial enough for the immense cost to build a useless wall, maintain it and train an entire force to help guard it.

Well I mean you stop losing billions a year and that adds up to something. Depending on how it's made, maintenance wouldn't be a huge issue. And what's wrong with using the current border patrol to guard it? The only difference would be that they're guarding a wall instead of a fence. I doubt there are many nuances that would require expensive special training.

Also, useless? Israel built a wall and that worked out great for them within a year.

They're benefiting from the fact that labor here is valued higher. Illegal immigrants do not have a social security card and thus do not receive benefits like social security, medicare, welfare, etc. They can still use the ER, but that's just a public health concern.

They would also gladly pay taxes in return for naturalization. The Mexican dishwashers getting paid 'under-the-table' sure as hell aren't receiving the Federal minimum wage, so it's in their best interest to seek citizenship anyway.

But as long as they're here the way they are, the US and legal citizens are still losing out.

That being said, it is a myth that illegal immigrants only take the jobs that other illegal immigrants are doing. There are plenty of white people who want to work as house maids and dishwashers. But the fact of the matter is that the only leg up that they have on you is the fact that they are illegal and do not have to be paid minimum wage. You have the economic, educational, and, unfortunately, racial advantage here. They will no longer have the advantage of being paid a lower wage if they're allowed to pursue citizenship.

Well that's great for them, but they need to start over and attain citizenship the right way. If you really want to be here, you shouldn't have broken the laws of our country to do it.

[Donnies Catch]

wasnt there already like a guarded  fence and stuff between the US and mexico anyways?

[Frequency]

wasnt there already like a guarded  fence and stuff between the US and mexico anyways?

Yeah that worked out pretty well 👌👌👌

[IkeTheGeneric]

Well I mean you stop losing billions a year and that adds up to something.

We aren't losing billions a year to specifically illegal immigrants

Depending on how it's made, maintenance wouldn't be a huge issue.

Maintenance will account for way more than the original price of the wall within at least five years.

Also, useless? Israel built a wall and that worked out great for them within a year.

To simply put it, just a wall alone won't keep people out.

[Frequency]

We aren't losing billions a year to specifically illegal immigrants

No, but their being here does cost us. Why not at the very least reduce that cost? That seems to be Donald Annoying Orange's ultimate goal (that and making sure the law is obeyed), so I imagine he would take the necessary steps to achieve that, doing whatever may be necessary.

Maintenance will account for way more than the original price of the wall within at least five years.

How much does it cost to maintain a sturdily built wall?

To simply put it, just a wall alone won't keep people out.

Of course not, but you'd be taking away their main entryway. Regarding Israel's "wall" (which is mostly fencing but actual walling at key points) had a 99% effectiveness in reducing illegal immigration within a year.