Author Topic: [Design Help] Combat Upgrades (RPG)  (Read 886 times)

I can't figure out a compelling progression for levelling up combat. I really don't want to just "up" the numbers as the player progresses, I want the gameplay to actually get harder the more you level up.

I've got this really cool system for gathering and crafting where you learn different recipes and discover new ingredients and components and the progression really works, then it comes to combat and I can't think of any way to reward the player for levelling up.

There are two main reason I feel I'm a bit boxed in:
  • the limited inventory space (5 slots - I know I can change this, but due to other systems really I can't)
  • keeping equipment open-ended (players can mix / match whatever gear they want)

I'll give a brief summary of the things I've been through. Initially I had 4 classes. This led to a lot of people defining themselves by their class, which I don't want. If people want to just be a humble merchant, they should be able to.

So I took out classes and replaced it with 4 stats: Strength, Cunning, Wisdom and Faith. The idea at the time was I would just tie equipment to abilities and have that be that. But now that I've come to it, I really don't like the idea of locking gear behind levels - if you find a sweet sword you should be able to use it.

Now I've scrapped those 4 stats and have no idea what to do with combat in my RPG. So if anyone has had any awesome ideas, now is the time to see them realized :cookieMonster:

Locking gear behind levels might not be the most fun, but as an alternative, have you thought of the levels affecting the effectiveness of the gear?
Like, an experienced fighter will probably know how to do more damage with a sword than a humble merchant.

Another way would be to drop the gear in specific places.
Where a more difficult enemy spawns, you will be more likely to find the higher tier equipment.
Something like that.
So the players will need to become better, find better gear, upgrade their effectiveness with their gear if you choose to have something like that, to overcome the challenges to get better loot.
This way the gear is not available for everyone, but only for those equipped and strong enough to overcome the challenge.

Another example would be the adventure games of old, where new weapons/upgrades also got you ways to get somewhere new or overcome an obstacle you would never be able to overcome without.
For example, you got a bomb in zelda and now you can throw bombs as a way to kill people, but also to destroy some walls.
Though i can imagine, this will be hard/near impossible in an RPG where you want a bit more items than your average Zelda game.

Yeah I thought about having stats affect the effictiveness of gear but the problem I saw with that is that a player could essentially have end-game gear at the start of the game - which throws off any small amount of balancing that I can achieve on my own unless the stat weighting makes the gear negligible.

I think I've solved the problem though. I've settled for a compromise and I'll detail it for anyone interested.

"Gems" (name pending..) are awarded to players when they complete something big (a quest line or a boss battle). Gems can be given to trainers of each of the four stats I listed before.

The difference is that Strength opposes Wisdom and Cunning opposes Faith. So, assuming every stat starts at 10, upgrading Strength to 11 will drop Wisdom to 9. This means that players who want to be the absolute Warrior type and wear gear at Strength 20 will have 0 ability with magic. However, they still have Faith vs Cunning available to them so they could end up being a Paladin-type Warrior with Faith or more of an experienced Ranger type with a Cunning boost. Or end up anywhere between.

This means players can mix and match their equipment as I wanted and also rewards players for completing a difficult challenge. This lets the equipment they have dictate their abilities, similar to what BL players are used to, if they have the right character for it. It also means gear drops can be slightly more lenient and players could find a good sword but not have the skill to use it, giving them a clear goal should they see it. I'll make sure being a jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none has benefits to it too of course.

Level and experience I'm going to change to be rank. Since I want gameplay to be more skill-based, the rank number of your character is essentially a cosmetic that you can show off - though later I could add rank-gated content if there is a need for it.


Yeah I thought about having stats affect the effictiveness of gear but the problem I saw with that is that a player could essentially have end-game gear at the start of the game - which throws off any small amount of balancing that I can achieve on my own unless the stat weighting makes the gear negligible.
could have a level requirement where the weapon has full effectiveness, and anything below that is a sharp dropoff. just make sure that's obvious to players so they aren't frustrated or confused. it's pretty important to be able to control what kind of tools the player will have at any given moment. if you want to allow players to use whatever weapons they find, you have to have another way of making sure you can still control the pace of the game.

you can also just design the game so it's not possible (or maybe just convoluted) for a player to have endgame gear early on. also remember that there's a lot more to progression than just numbers. games are iterative, and you'll probably find that players get bored if they're just using the same strategies and tools over and over again. if it's a combat-heavy game, make sure your enemies change with the player. you gotta keep them on their feet.

The difference is that Strength opposes Wisdom and Cunning opposes Faith. So, assuming every stat starts at 10, upgrading Strength to 11 will drop Wisdom to 9. This means that players who want to be the absolute Warrior type and wear gear at Strength 20 will have 0 ability with magic. However, they still have Faith vs Cunning available to them so they could end up being a Paladin-type Warrior with Faith or more of an experienced Ranger type with a Cunning boost. Or end up anywhere between.
i think this might be something that doesn't work as well in practice. if you already have finite resources, you have to make a decision on where to use them. if you spend all your time making everything equal, you'll probably fall behind because you can't do every combat style at once. i think players will naturally make the decision to specialize their stats based on the gameplay type they prefer, or the one that's the most practical for them. it would probably be better to focus on this idea because it promotes experimentation and allows players to shift their focus based on their immediate necessities.

that levelling system would also be incredibly punishing if a player decides they want to try out the opposing gameplay style later on. this would be particularly frustrating because it would force them to undo their previous progress, which would probably be enough to stop players from experimenting entirely.

Level and experience I'm going to change to be rank. Since I want gameplay to be more skill-based, the rank number of your character is essentially a cosmetic that you can show off - though later I could add rank-gated content if there is a need for it.
i think it might be better to think of levelling as a progression tool, rather than as an active gameplay element. if your gameplay is focused entirely on skill, you're setting yourself up to focus nearly entirely on progression through differences in kinds of challenges, which may certainly seem more engaging, but it's a massive development burden. levels can help you offset this so that you can also have progression through differences in scale of challenges. this is also a way to compensate for players who fall above or below the expected skill progression curve. players that are highly skilled can't just blow through the game without worrying about their stats, and players who aren't as skilled can get help by buffing up when they need to. definitely consider keeping something similar to levels, because i think it's a lot more important than you might first think

I suppose the other thing I could do is scale the equipment with the player, so that as they grow in level their equipment stats improve. It really needs to be obvious to the player what is going on with their equipment which is why I'm wary to nerf the equipment based on what level they should be using it at.

I think you're right about people not wanting to experiment in the gem system I suggested, which is the reason I got rid of classes in the first place so thanks for that. I do like the idea of putting points into those four stats though as well as having them counter-act so I might do a simple re-attribution system after the gem is earned. Heck, I could just say gems are the points and call them something more lore-friendly and powerful sounding.

So to summarize, an entry-level cap on equipment based on the [S/W/C/F] statistics to first use the equipment (these are the fun abilities and variety in content), and then scale that equipment based on the players overall combat level (this is how the player progresses through the game). Does that sound good?

sounds pretty decent. i think that if a weapon requires a certain stat requirement, then stats should definitely also factor into the equipment scaling as well. at least, that's what i would expect if i were playing

could just have players be unable to equip said endgame stuff if their stats are too low. then they'd have something to work towards being able to equip