Author Topic: No Man's Sky Official Megathread (Read 102855 times)

Rally · August 12, 2016, 01:30:08 AM

Quote from: Lord Tony� on August 12, 2016, 01:21:15 AM

Even 1 whole planet that is handcrafted would be ridiculous to ask for from a developer. That's just unheard of.

The entire concept of having an entire planet in a video game, at 1:1 scale, is brand new. You have E:D, which creates big round rocks that you can kinda interact with. Space Engineers also pulled it off, you can have a couple planets in a solar system, they generate some features like trees, and they made like cyber dogs and a spider thing I guess. Space Engine isn't actually a game but they were the OG's when it came to this stuff. No life, but there is convincing and beautiful generation.

Now, we have No Man's Sky. 48 quintillion planets, full of randomly generated 1:1 animals, plants, trees, resources, caves, bodies of water, atmospheres, generated in a hyper efficient engine on what is presumably a multiplayer universe. You either appreciate that stuff or you loving don't get it.

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Magus · August 12, 2016, 01:30:29 AM

Quote from: Lord Tony� on August 12, 2016, 01:21:15 AM

Even 1 whole planet that is handcrafted would be ridiculous to ask for from a developer. That's just unheard of.

What about 16 of them (well, 7 planets and 9 moons)

Rally · August 12, 2016, 01:31:29 AM

Tony is talking at the level of detail of things like Skyrim and Fallout which was part of an earlier discussion.

ZombiLoin · August 12, 2016, 01:44:21 AM

Quote from: Rally on August 12, 2016, 01:30:08 AM

Now, we have No Man's Sky. 48 quintillion planets, full of randomly generated 1:1 animals, plants, trees, resources, caves, bodies of water, atmospheres, generated in a hyper efficient engine on what is presumably a multiplayer universe. You either appreciate that stuff or you loving don't get it.

They aren't completely unique 1:1 animals, plants, tree, resources etc. They are, at best, rearrangements of the same predefined assets in slightly different colours or with a different tint or hue.

>hyper-efficient

Yes, 30fps at 1080p with a loving FOV of 13.2 at early PS3 level graphics. It is a very efficient engine.

>presumably a multiplayer universe

Key word presumably. It's never been confirmed if that's the case or not. It's all unsupported conjecture at this point.

Magus · August 12, 2016, 01:45:49 AM

Quote from: Rally on August 12, 2016, 01:31:29 AM

Tony is talking at the level of detail of things like Skyrim and Fallout which was part of an earlier discussion.

Most planets without plant life are generally going to be pretty featureless.

No roads, no trees, no towns, no dungeons, just hills, mountains, craters, valleys, and rocks.

As for handcrafted skyrim-type stuff:

It's about 360 square kilometers.

However, Kerbin has a surface area of 4.5238934�1012 m²

McZealot · August 12, 2016, 01:45:58 AM

jesus guys, I'd take a Star Citizen/Pulsar style high-detail small galaxy over a 100x E:D style empty galaxy any day of the week. E:D isn't fun because it's nice to look at, it's fun because the core gameplay is fantastic and deep. quality > quantity.

there's a reason tiny morrowind >>>>>>> britain-sized daggerfall.

Quote from: Rally on August 12, 2016, 01:30:08 AM

Now, we have No Man's Sky. 48 quintillion planets, full of randomly generated 1:1 animals, plants, trees, resources, caves, bodies of water, atmospheres, generated in a hyper efficient engine on what is presumably a multiplayer universe. You either appreciate that stuff or you loving don't get it.

I mean, I'd appreciate it a lot more if it was fun gameplay. It doesn't matter how damn good the graphics and scenery is if the game isn't fun.

I haven't played it yet, but repetition isn't even that bad in games if it's a good loop. I've spent like 100 hours trading in Elite and I just really like to sit back and play documentaries and podcasts in stuff on the other monitor.

I've been replaying 3 levels of Hitman for more than 100 hours now--because it's a really brilliant game.

beachbum111111 · August 12, 2016, 01:55:21 AM

So apparently when you pause the game everything freezes like a singleplayer game. Can people who own the game confirm this? Because if it's true then it definitely isn't multiplayer

Darryl McKoy · August 12, 2016, 01:55:47 AM

I would draw a distinction between landscape features and interactable features. Skyrim / fallout score great on both fronts. No Mans Sky likely won't be comparable on the interactable features at least.

Rally · August 12, 2016, 01:56:06 AM

Quote from: ZombiLoin on August 12, 2016, 01:44:21 AM

They aren't completely unique 1:1 animals, plants, tree, resources etc. They are, at best, rearrangements of the same predefined assets in slightly different colours or with a different tint or hue.

What the forget do you think computers are lmfao? Magic? Of course it uses predefined 3D assets using hues within the visible spectrum of the human eye. Maybe they'll make 40,000,000 more 3D assets for the next update. Spoiler: it's still going to be rearrangements of the same predefined assets in slightly different colors.

Quote from: ZombiLoin on August 12, 2016, 01:44:21 AM

>hyper-efficient
Yes, 30fps at 1080p with a loving FOV of 13.2 at early PS3 level graphics. It is a very efficient engine.

They probably had to meet halfway between "good graphics" and "ancient console hardware". Game looks loving good. I'm certainly not going to have any problems running it because I take my stuff seriously.

It's not about the limitations you impose on yourself with your PS4. It's about the consistent generation of 480,000,000,000,000,000 entire planets with hundreds of individual variables without data corruption or having to store everything you've seen in local hardware or memory. This is something that Space Engine couldn't master.

Quote from: ZombiLoin on August 12, 2016, 01:44:21 AM

>presumably a multiplayer universe
Key word presumably. It's never been confirmed if that's the case or not. It's all unsupported conjecture at this point.

The point is that it doesn't matter. They said from the beginning that it's not a multiplayer experience, there's just a small chance you might encounter another player.

Element · August 12, 2016, 02:02:20 AM

Quote from: ZombiLoin on August 12, 2016, 01:44:21 AM

-snip-

if there's not infinite art assets, then there's not an infinite number of possible rearrangements of said art assets. complaining about the limitations of the rearrangements of the predefined art assets is like complaining that the artists themselves didn't make infinity of them.

the art design is beautiful. not every game has to have next gen graphics to look nice.

multiplayer is in the game, otherwise why would they update the game to allow people to find other people more easily?

Quote from: McZealot on August 12, 2016, 01:45:58 AM

I haven't played it yet, but repetition isn't even that bad in games if it's a good loop. I've spent like 100 hours trading in Elite and I just really like to sit back and play documentaries and podcasts in stuff on the other monitor.

i'm gonna go out on a limb and say that if you just want a game to chill on while watching documentaries and all that, you'd find some value in No Man's Sky. if you already have games to chill on, though, then maybe not.

Quote from: beachbum111111 on August 12, 2016, 01:55:21 AM

So apparently when you pause the game everything freezes like a singleplayer game. Can people who own the game confirm this? Because if it's true then it definitely isn't multiplayer

that's because unless you're near someone else, the game is singleplayer. aside from discoveries, there are no online interactions. if your location is the same as someone elses, then it'll try to put you in an online lobby with them, but no guarantees because multiplayer isn't the primary feature of the game. the server will prioritise geting discoveries uploaded over putting people in the same lobby, as is what happened when those two players tried to meet up.

Rally · August 12, 2016, 02:04:11 AM

Quote from: McZealot on August 12, 2016, 01:45:58 AM

I've been replaying 3 levels of Hitman for more than 100 hours now--because it's a really brilliant game.

Were you planning on garroting aliens in space? I don't get it. I guess they could add like, randomly generated fetch quests that ask you to run to the other side of the planet and back. I wouldn't mind it. I probably wouldn't do them, but it'd be relatively easy to implement.

Quote from: Element on August 12, 2016, 02:02:20 AM

that's because unless you're near someone else, the game is singleplayer. aside from discoveries, there are no online interactions. if your location is the same as someone elses, then it'll try to put you in an online lobby with them, but no guarantees because multiplayer isn't the primary feature of the game. the server will prioritise geting discoveries uploaded over putting people in the same lobby, as is what happened when those two players tried to meet up.

I figured it was something like this, thanks for explaining.

ZombiLoin · August 12, 2016, 02:07:12 AM

Quote from: Rally on August 12, 2016, 01:56:06 AM

What the forget do you think computers are lmfao? Magic? Of course it uses predefined 3D assets using hues within the visible spectrum of the human eye. Maybe they'll make 40,000,000 more 3D assets for the next update. Spoiler: it's still going to be rearrangements of the same predefined assets in slightly different colors.

Then why are you touting it like it's some kind of magic? They rearranged 3d assets to make samey looking environment that all play the same? What's fun, interesting, or unique about that? That you can go to a purple planet instead of a red planet? That you can see a dinosaur with toenails instead of a dinosaur with wings? That you can see trees with broad leafs or needles? In every world, you're just going to be mining resources, fixing up your predefined ships, and going to another planet to start the same process over again. With a boatload of loading screen and inventory management in between. Some people might like the repetition, but a ton of people do not. Especially for $60s.

Quote from: Element on August 12, 2016, 02:02:20 AM

that's because unless you're near someone else, the game is singleplayer. aside from discoveries, there are no online interactions. if your location is the same as someone elses, then it'll try to put you in an online lobby with them, but no guarantees because multiplayer isn't the primary feature of the game. the server will prioritise geting discoveries uploaded over putting people in the same lobby, as is what happened when those two players tried to meet up.

I'm going to remain skeptical until it actually happens. Either way it's so minor and improbable that players would meet up that it doesn't matter.

Rally · August 12, 2016, 02:14:21 AM

Quote from: ZombiLoin on August 12, 2016, 02:07:12 AM

Then why are you touting it like it's some kind of magic? They rearranged 3d assets to make samey looking environment that all play the same? What's fun, interesting, or unique about that? That you can go to a purple planet instead of a red planet? That you can see a dinosaur with toenails instead of a dinosaur with wings? That you can see trees with broad leafs or needles? In every world, you're just going to be mining resources, fixing up your predefined ships, and going to another planet to start the same process over again. With a boatload of loading screen and inventory management in between.

I'm not touting it like it's some kinda magic but if you asked anyone if this kinda stuff was possible 5 years ago they'd probably think it'd require magic. Nobody's had the loving balls to try yet.

Do you not understand the concept of a game about exploring space lmfao? Yes, the entire point is that you can go to a planet with certain features, and then go to another planet with different features. That's literally it. Nothing else has been brought to the table because nothing else can be brought to the table. One planet will be red and the other MIGHT be purple. Maybe green. Are you complaining that there aren't enough colors now? I don't get it. Seriously, what were you expecting lmfao, more assets? More leaves?

Quote from: ZombiLoin on August 12, 2016, 02:07:12 AM

Some people might like the repetition, but a ton of people do not.

That's literally been the point the entire time. Just because you personally don't enjoy the genre doesn't mean it's a stuff game. This is as far as anyone has ever gotten with procedural generation technology. It's exciting.

ZombiLoin · August 12, 2016, 02:23:57 AM

Quote from: Rally on August 12, 2016, 02:14:21 AM

I'm not touting it like it's some kinda magic but if you asked anyone if this kinda stuff was possible 5 years ago they'd probably think it'd require magic. Nobody's had the loving balls to try yet.

Do you not understand the concept of a game about exploring space lmfao? Yes, the entire point is that you can go to a planet with certain features, and then go to another planet with different features. That's literally it. Nothing else has been brought to the table because nothing else can be brought to the table. One planet will be red and the other MIGHT be purple. Maybe green. Are you complaining that there aren't enough colors now? I don't get it. Seriously, what were you expecting lmfao, more assets? More leaves?

That concept of just going to different reskins of planets to do the something over and over is inherently repetitive and uninteresting to most people. The problem is that the planets aren't really different. You go through the same gameplay loop on each planet without much difference other than a different tint of colors. Space exploration falls flat when all of the planets blur into the same experience and stop being different in everything but RGB values.

Quote from: Rally on August 12, 2016, 02:14:21 AM

That's literally been the point the entire time. Just because you personally don't enjoy the genre doesn't mean it's a stuff game. This is as far as anyone has ever gotten with procedural generation technology. It's exciting.

Have I ever called No Man's Sky a bad game? I've just pointed out the technical and conceptual flaws that effect the game. For the record, I don't think it's a bad game, there are certainly worse ways to spend your time, but what makes it a good game? What, other than making several different reskins of the same planet, makes it a unique, interesting, and satisfying game? Does it make space combat interesting or satisfying? Are the shooter mechanics good or at least decent? Are the sound and art design good? Is organizing your inventory and upgrading your stuff fun and efficient? To put it bluntly, is the gameplay good?

A game can't survive on a single gimmick alone. No Man's Sky may be exciting because it's the farthest anyone has gotten with procedural generation technology (which, well, it hasn't, you can look at games like Dwarf Fortress for games with infinitely more depth from just procedurally generating its world and even a great deal of its assets), but if it simply isn't good, then it's just that- an exciting concept.

Rally · August 12, 2016, 02:54:00 AM

Quote from: ZombiLoin on August 12, 2016, 02:23:57 AM

You go through the same gameplay loop on each planet without much difference other than a different tint of colors.

The one-liner about a 'tint of colors' isn't getting any more true the more you use it.
>>https://forum.blockland.us/index.php?topic=299636.msg9192472#msg9192472

Your most played game on Steam is CS:GO lol. Somehow I find it very unsurprising that you're uninterested in a game that has 'exploration' as it's main selling point.

Quote from: ZombiLoin on August 12, 2016, 02:23:57 AM

What, other than making several different reskins of the same planet, makes it a unique, interesting, and satisfying game? Does it make space combat interesting or satisfying? Are the shooter mechanics good or at least decent? Are the sound and art design good? Is organizing your inventory and upgrading your stuff fun and efficient? To put it bluntly, is the gameplay good?

You realize that all this stuff is basically a courtesy right lol? The space combat does look great, and if you ask me the sound design and art is pretty forgetin' up there. I guess some people bitched that the inventory space was too cramped I guess? Is that a game breaking feature to you?

I don't actually understand your point is if you "don't think it's a bad game". I agree that there's room for improvement, there's room for improvement on every game.