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| beachbum111111:
--- Quote from: SeventhSandwich on January 26, 2017, 02:10:37 AM ---The data are pretty much irrelevant because even if we come up with a completely fair standard for what constitutes 'religious violence', the raw numbers are still gonna be within an order of magnitude. The take-away here isn't "their religion is x% more violent than ours!", it's "violence is a complicated thing that isn't predicted solely by religious scripture." --- End quote --- "Timur frequently used his Islamic religion to achieve his military goals or domestic political aims" so thats 20 million already. --- Quote from: SeventhSandwich on January 26, 2017, 02:14:13 AM ---They religiously persecuted the Native Americans and established probably the most brutal form of forced labor in American history, motivated by their 'god-given' mandate to conquer. --- End quote --- I don't want to go find all the loving sources from 5 years ago but I read about the Spanish conquest of Mexico. The Tlaxcalians were the most brutal after the siege and the Spanish treated the city states that helped them win the war quite well. Even attempting to isolate people from Smallpox so they wouldn't get infected. Of course this is all very vague because I read this all 5-6 years ago. --- Quote from: SeventhSandwich on January 26, 2017, 02:14:13 AM ---but Spanish encomienda is 'loving cool'. --- End quote --- Genghis Khan is also my role model so suck it friend. --- Quote from: Nonnel on January 26, 2017, 02:15:35 AM ---africa was also colonized in the name of civilization and christianity so you could probably make a case for all of their post-colonial border conflicts being christians' faults --- End quote --- We could also make the case that you're pants on head handicapped but that case is far more logical. |
| SeventhSandwich:
--- Quote from: beachbum111111 on January 26, 2017, 02:25:24 AM ---"Timur frequently used his Islamic religion to achieve his military goals or domestic political aims" so thats 20 million already. --- End quote --- So did like everyone. You don't think there were famous and barbaric leaders in European history who used Christianity to further their goals? --- Quote from: beachbum111111 on January 26, 2017, 02:25:24 AM ---I don't want to go find all the loving sources from 5 years ago but I read about the Spanish conquest of Mexico. The Tlaxcalians were the most brutal after the siege and the Spanish treated the city states that helped them win the war quite well. Even attempting to isolate people from Smallpox so they wouldn't get infected. Of course this is all very vague because I read this all 5-6 years ago. --- End quote --- I don't know what kind of history you read, but any narrative that paints the Natives as the 'aggressors' in the Spanish conquest is bullstuff. The Spaniards were brutal, violent monsters when it came to encomienda. |
| beachbum111111:
--- Quote from: SeventhSandwich on January 26, 2017, 02:29:23 AM ---So did like everyone. You don't think there were famous and barbaric leaders in European history who used Christianity to further their goals? --- End quote --- 20 million from one ruler? Thats more then the amount dead in the Thirty Years War. And were not even talking about the Mughals --- Quote from: SeventhSandwich on January 26, 2017, 02:29:23 AM ---I don't know what kind of history you read, but any narrative that paints the Natives as the 'aggressors' in the Spanish conquest is bullstuff. The Spaniards were brutal, violent monsters when it came to encomienda. --- End quote --- The Spanish never liked to admit that the natives helped them. The Tlaxcians did as we later found out. |
| SeventhSandwich:
--- Quote from: beachbum111111 on January 26, 2017, 02:31:24 AM ---20 million from one ruler? Thats more then the amount dead in the Thirty Years War. --- End quote --- I don't think that even constitutes religious violence tbh. You don't even know whether his soldiers were killing people in the name of Islam. That's roughly equivalent to cherry-picking some quote from Bush where he cites Christianity as his 'political inspiration', and then tallying every death in the Iraq War as Radical Christian Terrorism. --- Quote from: beachbum111111 on January 26, 2017, 02:31:24 AM ---The Spanish never liked to admit that the natives helped them. The Tlaxcians did as we later found out. --- End quote --- The Natives also weren't a monolith, they had wars of their own between different tribes. |
| beachbum111111:
--- Quote from: SeventhSandwich on January 26, 2017, 02:33:39 AM ---I don't think that even constitutes religious violence tbh. You don't even know whether his soldiers were killing people in the name of Islam. That's roughly equivalent to cherry-picking some quote from Bush where he cites Christianity as his 'political inspiration', and then tallying every death in the Iraq War as Radical Christian Terrorism. --- End quote --- --- Quote from: beachbum111111 on January 26, 2017, 02:25:24 AM ---"Timur frequently used his Islamic religion to achieve his military goals or domestic political aims" --- End quote --- Lets just say he didn't like Zoroastrians |
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