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| "See how machine learning is helping us tackle gender bias in movies." |
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| torin²:
--- Quote from: Cappytaino on May 16, 2017, 03:12:10 PM ---the first point is interesting because I think that a possible explanation is that movies that are marketed to women contain more women, but men are less likely to see those movies, so they won't sell as well. Compare The Avengers to Bridesmaids. Of the two movies, the Avengers is the most likely movie for men to watch. The protagonists of Bridesmaids are all female, but IMO it isn't as compelling to men, so they won't watch it. It isn't necessarily that men are avoiding movies starring women, but rather, that many of them just aren't interesting. I can tell you that personally, I'd have more fun shooting myself in the foot with a shotgun than watching a Melissa McCarthy movie. I don't hate women in starring roles, but I just don't find movies directed to women as compelling. I want metal, explosions, and mindless entertainment when I go to see a summer blockbuster. Not cheesy rom-com bullstuff. --- End quote --- i wish i could shoot melissa mcarthy in the foot with a shotgun |
| otto-san:
--- Quote from: Cappytaino on May 16, 2017, 03:12:10 PM ---the first point is interesting because I think that a possible explanation is that movies that are marketed to women contain more women, but men are less likely to see those movies, so they won't sell as well. Compare The Avengers to Bridesmaids. Of the two movies, the Avengers is the most likely movie for men to watch. The protagonists of Bridesmaids are all female, but IMO it isn't as compelling to men, so they won't watch it. It isn't necessarily that men are avoiding movies starring women, but rather, that many of them just aren't interesting. I can tell you that personally, I'd have more fun shooting myself in the foot with a shotgun than watching a Melissa McCarthy movie. I don't hate women in starring roles, but I just don't find movies directed to women as compelling. I want metal, explosions, and mindless entertainment when I go to see a summer blockbuster. Not cheesy rom-com bullstuff. --- End quote --- it's interesting how we have such a clear idea that women must obviously like x genre of media, and men must like y genre. i mean, the sociological explanation is pretty simple, and it makes sense that it'd be that way, but it's strange how strongly the films industry sticks to those archetypes. i think there's a better explanation here than just "well women like this and men like that," but i do think it's probably correct that woman-targeting films probably have a hard time reaching a broad male audience, and vice-versa. that being said, i somewhat suspect this is mostly down to marketing and poor writing. a good story should be able to theoretically reach a broad audience regardless, so maybe film writers are just playing into niches they've carved out for themselves by marketing movies, either in the present or the past, so strongly to a specific gender. i think that trend is fading more and more though, and a lot of media is appearing that actually proves that it's not so hard to create a compelling piece of writing with a heterogeneous cast if you aren't afraid to break away from the safety of the archetypes and tropes people have gotten used to. it's an interesting thing to think about tho, we gender movies just like how we gender toys and clothes |
| Cappytaino:
--- Quote from: otto-san on May 16, 2017, 03:23:02 PM ---it's interesting how we have such a clear idea that women must obviously like x genre of media, and men must like y genre. i mean, the sociological explanation is pretty simple, and it makes sense that it'd be that way, but it's strange how strongly the films industry sticks to those archetypes. i think there's a better explanation here than just "well women like this and men like that," but i do think it's probably correct that woman-targeting films probably have a hard time reaching a broad male audience, and vice-versa. that being said, i somewhat suspect this is mostly down to marketing and poor writing. a good story should be able to theoretically reach a broad audience regardless, so maybe film writers are just playing into niches they've carved out for themselves by marketing movies, either in the present or the past, so strongly to a specific gender. i think that trend is fading more and more though, and a lot of media is appearing that actually proves that it's not so hard to create a compelling piece of writing with a heterogeneous cast if you aren't afraid to break away from the safety of the archetypes and tropes people have gotten used to. it's an interesting thing to think about tho, we gender movies just like how we gender toys and clothes --- End quote --- I believe a lot of it has to do with corporate bureaucracy and getting a movie green-lit for funding. I know that at least in my experience, sitting down to watch movies with other guys, we have not once watched a movie that would be more traditionally targeted at women. I think a lot of it boils down to what men want from a movie vs what women want. Men tend to like brainless entertainment- look at football, action movies, FPS games, etc. Men like to see stuff get forgeted up and don't care much for the plot provided it isn't incredibly stupid. Even then, it may still be a good movie depending on how it's marketed. Women care more for plot development, I'd think. Anecdotally, my ex and her friends loved the movie Titanic and they watched it at least once every month together. I don't have the patience to sit through such a long movie, nor do I really care about the plot as much as they did. The most "plot intensive" movie I'd watch by choice would have to be one of the James Bond movies- they have enough action to stop me from getting bored and a plot that ties everything together nicely, in most cases (we don't talk about Moonraker). tl;dr IMO guys like violence and explosions and dont really care about plot, women care about the plot but usually don't trend towards violent movies. |
| Kochieboy:
--- Quote from: torin² on May 16, 2017, 03:11:06 PM --- --- End quote --- *tips stand* m'lady |
| otto-san:
--- Quote from: Cappytaino on May 16, 2017, 03:32:33 PM ---I believe a lot of it has to do with corporate bureaucracy and getting a movie green-lit for funding. I know that at least in my experience, sitting down to watch movies with other guys, we have not once watched a movie that would be more traditionally targeted at women. I think a lot of it boils down to what men want from a movie vs what women want. Men tend to like brainless entertainment- look at football, action movies, FPS games, etc. Men like to see stuff get forgeted up and don't care much for the plot provided it isn't incredibly stupid. Even then, it may still be a good movie depending on how it's marketed. Women care more for plot development, I'd think. Anecdotally, my ex and her friends loved the movie Titanic and they watched it at least once every month together. I don't have the patience to sit through such a long movie, nor do I really care about the plot as much as they did. The most "plot intensive" movie I'd watch by choice would have to be one of the James Bond movies- they have enough action to stop me from getting bored and a plot that ties everything together nicely, in most cases (we don't talk about Moonraker). tl;dr IMO guys like violence and explosions and dont really care about plot, women care about the plot but usually don't trend towards violent movies. --- End quote --- i don't think i agree that this is necessarily the case, but it is certainly the nature of the market, and that defo matters. the kinds of entertainment that we assign to male/female roles probably generates these ideas about what men/women supposedly like more or less, and i guess really, because media perpetuates those ideas, they stay embedded into our culture. on an individual basis though, i don't think there's any reason to apply those roles. anyone can enjoy a good movie regardless of their love, and if writers are implementing tropes that hinder their ability to reach a broader audience, that's their creative choice. i don't know much about the investors' side of the films industry, but it is also a good point that a lot of these things probably have to do with the risks associated with breaking too much away from the norm. for a production that costs millions of dollars, i suppose it's likely that investors expect a lot of information up-front about what target audiences are being hit and how the writers intend to hit them, and that process probably necessitates a good bit of this stereotyping from the start |
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