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| "See how machine learning is helping us tackle gender bias in movies." |
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| Shift Kitty:
And the reason horror movies typically have more female screentime because there's a lot of cases where it's a female that does a lot of the work and ends up surviving. Sometimes there's a guy too. The reason it's not a much larger percentage because the 'horror' of the movie is typically male and the focus of the movie. |
| Camel:
--- Quote from: McZealot on May 17, 2017, 12:23:30 AM ---Also Master Mathew is a loving handicap. Rey and Jyn aren't any Mary Sues--they're literally generic fantasy protagonists. If they were male characters you wouldn't bat an eye. Luke is way worse than either of them. --- End quote --- it always bugs me because the term Mary Sue has always meant self-insert, so unless JJ's fantasy version of himself is Rey, it's just a silly trope to throw around. And i do believe people throw it around as an excuse, because someone's already done the thinking for you; you don't have to form a real argument, you just say Mary Sue and assume that's all the evidence you need. But let's not front - luke ain't way worse than either of them. He's Luke! I've yet to see a single good argument saying Luke is a crappier protagonist than Rey, cus it's just silly. |
| Tactical Nuke:
--- Quote from: McZealot on May 17, 2017, 12:23:30 AM ---Also Master Mathew is a loving handicap. --- End quote --- only part of this statement that I agree with --- Quote from: McZealot on May 17, 2017, 12:23:30 AM ---Rey and Jyn aren't any Mary Sues--they're literally generic fantasy protagonists. --- End quote --- Except they are Mary Sues because they're terrible characters that are somehow the best at everything. Their weaknesses are just that -- weak. Notice how Rey can fly the Millenium Falcon about as good as Han can upon her first time booting it up. She learns the Jedi mind trick on her own without any outside assistance whatsoever. She isn't even let on that such a thing exists before she pulls it off. She also can easily overpower Kylo Ren, one of the Knights of Ren, trained by Luke Skywalker, despite never even having held a lightsaber before. In fact, the one time she touches a lightsaber she runs away into the woods by herself out of fear. What are her weaknesses? Can you name any? Her character flips on a dime when it's convenient for the plot. She tells BB-8 to forget off, and then about five seconds later she becomes its sole guardian. She wants to leave Jakku, then she leaves Jakku and immediately wants to go back. She tells Finn not to leave the gang, then she has the lightsaber episode and immediately runs off on her own and actively shoos away anyone who follows her. What the forget even is Jyn's character? They save her for some reason in the beginning of the movie and she just becomes a tool for the Rebellion for the entire first half of the movie. And any character she has also contradicts itself constantly. She's mad at the Rebellion for having a hand in her father's death, then instead of holding grudges, she rallies the entire army and teams up with the guy slated to assassinate him. That's literally the next scene of the movie. It doesn't have to be "self-inserted" to be a Mary Sue character. The definition is "idealized and seemingly perfect"; self-insertion is just one of the many enablers of a Mary Sue. --- Quote from: McZealot on May 17, 2017, 12:23:30 AM ---If they were male characters you wouldn't bat an eye. --- End quote --- what did we say about assuming --- Quote from: McZealot on May 17, 2017, 12:23:30 AM ---Luke is way worse than either of them. --- End quote --- There's a given reason that Luke is good at flying ships, and that's given in his hobby of shooting Womp Rats back on Tatooine. He also doesn't instantly master the force and is guided by Obi-wan Kenobi in his first steps, later to be trained by the master of masters, Yoda. In the first half of the original trilogy, he doesn't even use a lightsaber, he's given a blaster and he clumsily carries it around with him, only really hitting anything when at point blank range. You can see where Luke grows as a character. Can you see that arc with Rey? I'm pretty sure she's already reached "Return of the Jedi" levels of force mastery, and she started an hour earlier at "New Hope" levels. It isn't even funny. |
| Rally:
--- Quote from: McZealot on May 17, 2017, 12:23:30 AM ---Rey and Jyn aren't any Mary Sues--they're literally generic fantasy protagonists. If they were male characters you wouldn't bat an eye. Luke is way worse than either of them. --- End quote --- Luke forgets up perpetually and needs help in almost every single aspect of every movie he's in. It took Luke a long time training with the loving Grand Master of the Jedi Order to learn the force and by the end of it he couldn't even use the force to lift the ship he crashed out of the swamp. Luke was also a huge childish starfish for a good portion of his character development, Rey basically had no character development at all, she was just the same brave strong bad-ass super soldier she was since we met her on some desert island where there's nothing to do all day. Meanwhile, Rey doesn't even know the force exists one day, and the next day she's using loving Jedi mind tricks to escape Kylo Ren's prison. She stumbles across the millennium falcon trying to get off Tatooine Jakku and instantly knows how to pilot it despite having no experience. She can also pinpoint the exact problem and repair it when the millennium falcon breaks even when loving Han Solo himself couldn't figure it out. I shouldn't even have to mention defeating a Sith Lord trained by Luke Skywalker. "Generic fantasy protagonist" doesn't work when you're pandering to the fans of an already established fantasy saga that has established rules. --- Quote from: McZealot on May 17, 2017, 12:23:30 AM ---If they were male characters you wouldn't bat an eye --- End quote --- Finn was also a poorly written character. Are you going to call me tribal now? |
| McZealot:
--- Quote from: Camel on May 17, 2017, 01:11:10 AM ---it always bugs me because the term Mary Sue has always meant self-insert, so unless JJ's fantasy version of himself is Rey, it's just a silly trope to throw around. --- End quote --- Uh, Mary Sue has two meanings. It originated as a term to refer to self-insert fanfiction characters (who typically have no flaws) but now also refers to flawless characters who literally exist as a fantasy. Interestingly, the term actually originated in a Star Trek Fanfiction called 'A Trekkie's Tale' I believe. |
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