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| "See how machine learning is helping us tackle gender bias in movies." |
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| Rally:
--- Quote from: McZealot on May 17, 2017, 07:52:28 PM ---It's not semantics--I'm pointing out that she comes from a fantastic world in which people are essential 'superheroes' and tend to be extremely powerful with few flaws as the very concept of their being. I guess you could say they are all Mary Sues, but since that's kind-of the point of the whole fantasy genre it falls a little flat. --- End quote --- Rey is significantly less of an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character in Star Wars than she would be in other genres, yes. But when we compare Rey relatively to other protagonists in the saga, her abilities and persona are unrealistically better and out of place even for the setting they occur in. And I don't know about force-sensitives being fantastic superheroes. As a matter of fact the vast majority of them spent their entire lives trying to learn the ways of the force, only to turn out to be evil murderers, dead, or senile geriatrics exiled to desolate and remote planets. This includes Anakin, Yoda, Kenobi, and now even Luke --- Quote from: McZealot on May 17, 2017, 07:52:28 PM ---It seems weird and can often come off as loveist when everyone freaks about Rey's idealism while surrounded by male characters of the same quality --- End quote --- Well quite frankly I have a ton of negative observations about many of the male characters in the saga, the only reason I'm bitching about Rey is because she was mentioned in the article and being used as an example of how female characters should be written, which I disagree with |
| RedGajin:
rey isnt thicc so her role and the movie itself sucks end of discussion |
| Nonnel:
i think we should wait until the next movie for them to explain it was all because of force magic before we say she doesn't fit |
| Tactical Nuke:
--- Quote from: McZealot on May 17, 2017, 06:18:20 PM ---You know why she's so exceptionally powerful? Because it's a fantasy. --- End quote --- "It's a fantasy, therefore I can write as stuffty and underdeveloped of a character as I want! Character arcs? Who needs those?!" --- Quote from: McZealot on May 17, 2017, 06:18:20 PM ---The whole concept of fighting with laser-swords is ridiculous. Someone being born good at fighting with laser swords isn't even remotely ridiculous in context. She's good at laser-sword fighting because in the plot she was born good at that sort of thing. This isn't insane--since she's basically the most competent Jedi of her generation, it only makes sense she would be naturally proficient in dueling. --- End quote --- Except it is ridiculous because every single Jedi ever has needed extensive training in lightsaber combat, meanwhile Rey swings a heavy stick around like a jackass and takes out two incompetent thugs and that somehow qualifies her to take down a heavily-trained Sith lord who can stop blaster bolts mid-air and literally za warudo people at will. Mind you, with a completely different weapon, which she has never held in her life. --- Quote from: McZealot on May 17, 2017, 06:18:20 PM ---Luke was born as a farmer while Rey was born in a much more dangerous environment under which she actively scavenged shipwrecks for money. Is it possible that some characters are just more suited to be action heros? Rey had appropriate skills for her character. Unrealistically competent and powerful--but that is the entire nature of the fantasy genre. --- End quote --- "Much more dangerous"? Jakku is a knock-off Tatooine. Did you just up and forget about the Jawas that steal droids from you under the cover of night? Or the loving Tusken Raiders? Or Mos Eisley? --- Quote from: McZealot on May 17, 2017, 06:18:20 PM ---She figures out how to pilot the ship because she grew up working with derelict technology and was a natural engineer. Han Solo meanwhile is far more involved in the action of actually flying the thing--he never was a particularly good engineer. --- End quote --- Selling stuff to a junkyard owner that you found in a broken, blown up ship does not translate into flying. It may mean she knows how to fix the ship, but she literally pilots the thing as good as Han on her first go at flying ever. --- Quote from: McZealot on May 17, 2017, 06:18:20 PM ---She gets lucky with her force-abilities, and even surprises herself by managing to overwhelm the guard with the force. This is of course within the realm of possibility, since she's probably Luke's daughter and is undisputably the most powerful Jedi of the generation. --- End quote --- But we don't know that. In the context of this movie, she's completely unaware that Jedi could mind-trick people at all, and then she basically figures it out down to a T after about three tries. Meanwhile, Luke can't even do the mind-trick until the last part of the original trilogy. --- Quote from: McZealot on May 17, 2017, 06:18:20 PM ---She has a natural attraction towards Luke's lightsaber so it makes sense that she is unusually proficient in combat--she was competent in battle beforehand anyway--while using said lightsaber. She wasn't outstanding and Kylo Ren was destroying her in the fight until she got lucky towards the end. Not to mention--he was injured. At his full strength she wouldn't have beat Kylo. --- End quote --- That battle highlights the issues with the other characters as well. Kylo Ren is a raging, insecure sack of hormones who literally comes off as emo as forget, which is not what you want from a Sith lord. That may not have been the case had he never taken off his mask, which he loving shouldn't have. Rally really covered how bullstuff the setup to that fight was better than I could by myself. One of the Knights of Ren, which has to be a badass sect of Jedi given the distinct name, trained by Luke Skywalker, the guy can literally stop a blaster bolt in mid-air coming from Poe as part of an ambush while totally unaware of Poe's location before the shot is fired. Meanwhile, Chewbacca, while he definitely is a badass, can pull off what Poe couldn't when there is no way in hell he should have been able to, given the circumstances in both cases were practically identical. Then you have Finn, who, as a stormtrooper, has had a lifetime of intense combat training, something Rey has never even come close to, so it's at least reasonable that Finn has made it as far as he did in the movie. He gets the stuff kicked out of him by Kylo. Wounded Kylo. But somehow Rey can still overpower him. --- Quote from: Nonnel on May 17, 2017, 08:36:57 PM ---i think we should wait until the next movie for them to explain it was all because of force magic before we say she doesn't fit --- End quote --- https://youtu.be/e1j7zc31CcY?t=505 |
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