"See how machine learning is helping us tackle gender bias in movies."

[Alteration]

http://www.springhole.net/writing/whatisamarysue.htm

Rey is a Mary Sue, and not every fantasy character is a Mary Sue. There is a difference between a fantasy character and an overpowered character.

[Ad Bot]

[Poliwhirl]

star wars isnt generally known for having deep, complex characters. why does luke know how to fly a ship so well that he outperforms other rebel fighters? what training has he undergone offscreen to be able to suddenly overpower darth vader in the third movie, something he failed to do previously?

people are just scrutinizing the sequels far more than they are the original, but honestly i like the mystery surrounding rey's lineage and her general lack of a clear "destiny" like luke had. (kill bad guy save galaxy)

tfa was kind of didappointing in that it took almost no risks and stuck strictly to the plot of a new hope, though.

[Alteration]

why does luke know how to fly a ship so well that he outperforms other rebel fighters?

Strong Force connection + previous experience with flying a T16 Skyhopper through canyons/chasms

what training has he undergone offscreen to be able to suddenly overpower darth vader in the third movie, something he failed to do previously?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Shadows_of_the_Empire

[Tactical Nuke]

star wars isnt generally known for having deep, complex characters.

Correct. It's known for having fun, relatable characters. Keyword relatable.

why does luke know how to fly a ship so well that he outperforms other rebel fighters?

"I used to bullseye Womp Rats in my T-16 back home. They're not much bigger than two meters."
That and the connection to the Force that allowed him to blind-eye the shot that blew up the Death Star.

You also overstate the skill of Rebel fighters. They're not trained like stormtroopers. They're regular people who took up arms. It's like any rebellion ever.

what training has he undergone offscreen to be able to suddenly overpower darth vader in the third movie, something he failed to do previously?

How did he get another lightsaber? Stuff happened off-screen in between movies, that's normal.

He trained more. If you watched the first battle against Vader, he was gaining the edge over him before he got cornered. Vader's strikes were getting more and more heavy and frantic. It's a testament to fighting choreography.

people are just scrutinizing the sequels far more than they are the original,

Because it's a new writer tasked with redeeming the franchise after Lucas tanked it with the prequels.

but honestly i like the mystery surrounding rey's lineage and her general lack of a clear "destiny" like luke had. (kill bad guy save galaxy)

Except we're given more information about Luke and his past from the get-go. We know in the first movie that his father is Anakin Skywalker, a powerful Jedi and friend to all the oldies. We know that Vader "killed him" and that gives us reason to root for Luke when they inevitably face off.

We know absolutely nothing about Rey. Her family left her and she "has a thing" for Luke's lightsaber. That's it. We don't know who her family is or their relationship with the other characters in the movie, so when Rey and Kylo face off, what are we supposed to root for?

tfa was kind of didappointing in that it took almost no risks and stuck strictly to the plot of a new hope, though.

only thing I absolutely agree with

[Red Spy]

tfa was kind of didappointing in that it took almost no risks and stuck strictly to the plot of a new hope, though.

It's definitely one of those movies that gets worse the more you think about it

[Rally]

what training has he undergone offscreen to be able to suddenly overpower darth vader in the third movie, something he failed to do previously?

He trained with Kenobi most likely between the two movies. And when you actually consider the final duel between Luke and Vader, it's largely emotional. We see that Luke is relatively out-matched, or at-least unable to defeat Vader in the context provided. It's only when Vader purposely enrages Luke does he receive the power to overwhelm Vader, this power obviously coming from the bogan, which is known for it's extreme combat efficiency. Tricking Luke into abusing this power was essentially the goal the entire time.

And hey at-least he failed the first time lol. His first defeat comes after extensive training with Yoda, and even as a particularly powerful force sensitive this is not enough to defeat Vader and ends up getting his forgetin arm chopped off by his own father and failing to rescue Han. It really gives you that sense of exactly how difficult it is to master and control the force, and how Luke is powerful enough to hold his own against Vader but hasn't worked hard enough to actually defeat him.

why does luke know how to fly a ship so well that he outperforms other rebel fighters?

I think there was a deleted scene where one of the rebel commanders refers to Luke has the "best bush pilot in the outer rim territories" or something. This is pretty lazy writing though and that's why they brought it up in the comics showing Luke flying orbital craft on Tattooine. This hobby was even secretly supported by Kenobi because he knew it was going to come in handy.

"It'll be just like beggar's canyon back home!"

[Awasp]

All these people talking about how Rey did this or did that without experience. The force is a literal plot tool that lets the writers put practically anything in the story and still have it be possible in the realm of the world they created. You can literally explain anything in the movies by hand waving it away with the force. You can survive death by becoming a force ghost if your proficient enough. And then people question how Rey does certain things, it's because she's force sensitive which means you should suspend you belief when she does anything seemingly impossible. People keep trying to explain the force in depth while forgetting that it's main use is a plot device to handwave things in the story, not to be something the story revolves around. It just so happens that the plot tool is used practically everywhere in the story.

[Alteration]

All these people talking about how Rey did this or did that without experience. The force is a literal plot tool that lets the writers put practically anything in the story and still have it be possible in the realm of the world they created. You can literally explain anything in the movies by hand waving it away with the force. You can survive death by becoming a force ghost if your proficient enough. And then people question how Rey does certain things, it's because she's force sensitive which means you should suspend you belief when she does anything seemingly impossible. People keep trying to explain the force in depth while forgetting that it's main use is a plot device to handwave things in the story, not to be something the story revolves around. It just so happens that the plot tool is used practically everywhere in the story.

Force sensitive is not the same thing as Force proficient. Why do you think there are padawans, knights, and masters, as well as entire temples (Old Republic and New) dedicated to it? You can be Force sensitive but you have to teach Force proficiency. Luke had Obi-Wan teach him things while they were flying to Alderaan. Rey had nobody teach her anything about the Force yet somehow knows about mind tricks and telepathic blocking in a galaxy where the Jedi are a myth and on a world where the outside world pretty much doesn't exist.

[c]

we here at google have seen EVERY movie and we determined with COMPITER SCIENCE that every movie is loveIST and bad

[Conan]

the derailment is real but i love every minute of it

have to strongly agree with tacnuke and rally here: rey's character experienced hardly any growth - it felt like one of those hardy boy/nancy drew books where people do things but don't actually get impacted by what they experience. or using another brown townogy: it felt like someone changing jobs - adapting to the new work environment, but not changing as a person in any way

[Shift Kitty]

the derailment is real but i love every minute of it

have to strongly agree with tacnuke and rally here: rey's character experienced hardly any growth - it felt like one of those hardy boy/nancy drew books where people do things but don't actually get impacted by what they experience. or using another brown townogy: it felt like someone changing jobs - adapting to the new work environment, but not changing as a person in any way

So like Final Fantasy Tactics.

Ramza was never trained to be a monk.

[Tactical Nuke]

the derailment is real but i love every minute of it

we're talking about gender bias in movies so that isn't really derailment

it's clear Rey and Jyn were both chosen because they were female
you can see it in the stufftiness of their characters

[Rally]

All these people talking about how Rey did this or did that without experience. The force is a literal plot tool that lets the writers put practically anything in the story and still have it be possible in the realm of the world they created. You can literally explain anything in the movies by hand waving it away with the force. You can survive death by becoming a force ghost if your proficient enough. And then people question how Rey does certain things, it's because she's force sensitive which means you should suspend you belief when she does anything seemingly impossible. People keep trying to explain the force in depth while forgetting that it's main use is a plot device to handwave things in the story, not to be something the story revolves around. It just so happens that the plot tool is used practically everywhere in the story.

Just because the Force is a mythical concept that's left ambiguous on purpose, doesn't mean we should abuse the hell out of it to make stuffty characters that are super great at everything without even having to try because "It's magic, I aint gotta explain stuff".  We didn't have to do it in the original canon, why did we have to do it in TFA? Could it be because JJ Abrams is a stuff writer who put good story-telling in the backseat in order to force Rey's character?

Even if Rey is the daughter of Luke, she'd be nowhere near as force-sensitive as Anakin was. That never stopped Anakin from having a character arc that didn't suck. Being force-sensitive doesn't automatically make you capable of expertly manipulating the force, and we've seen evidence of this in basically all the Star Wars movies before TFA. Also, saying the force isn't a major role in Star Wars and is solely there to 'handwave' stuff is super ignorant. Read the books.