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adidas campaigns "Create Positivity", immediately backfires
SeventhSandwich:
--- Quote from: Timestamp on June 20, 2017, 09:32:27 PM ---the wikipedia link you gave me is a city basically made by the cahokia tribe iirc which from what i'm reading it basically does not say or mention anything about a country or an empire or even a government system on that matter. you're going to need to highlight some things otherwise i'm not gonna bother spending a chunk of my night reading an article for hours and hours, in the end having a result of no correlation and trying to desperately connect what you're saying to this one in particular.
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It was a large ancient Native American city which existed in modern-day Illinois and had industry and a stratified government. Make note of the fact that the city existed during a time when most of Europe was populated by tribes of subsistence foragers, meaning Cahokia was comparatively more advanced. That link was to provide evidence of the fact that large, complex Native American societies existed. The Incas were linked for the same general reasons.
--- Quote from: Timestamp on June 20, 2017, 09:32:27 PM ---i didn't say or imply this at all. i said they're not a country
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On what grounds?
beachbum111111:
--- Quote from: SeventhSandwich on June 20, 2017, 09:29:29 PM ---
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Ethiopia got a pass because coptbros are the best
Timestamp:
it's funny how the majority of your argument here is based on me implying that native american societies have no concept of a leadership or system so i really can't say anything more about this. you're thinking that "x is not a country" is me saying "x are dumb" with your reasoning behind including incas in this which i was never even saying. i hate to say this word but great strawman.
--- Quote from: SeventhSandwich on June 20, 2017, 09:39:56 PM ---It was a large ancient Native American city which existed in modern-day Illinois and had industry and a stratified government.
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--- Quote from: Cahokia Wikipedia ---This period appears to have fostered an agricultural revolution in upper North America, as the three-fold crops of maize, beans (legumes) and gourds (squash) were developed and adapted or bred to the temperate climates of the north from their origins in Meso-America. Richter also notes that Cahokia's advanced development coincided with the development to the west of the Chaco Canyon society, which also produced large-scale works in an apparent socially stratified society.
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--- Quote from: SeventhSandwich on June 20, 2017, 09:39:56 PM ---That link was to provide evidence of the fact that large, complex Native American societies existed.
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like i said above, it has nothing to do with what i was saying and i didn't imply they weren't able to be further than a tribe once again.
--- Quote from: SeventhSandwich on June 20, 2017, 09:39:56 PM ---On what grounds?
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i would say they are a nation like the many, many, MANY people will name the groups because it fits with them well. sure the words "nation and a country" may be used differently or interchangable but weirdly enough they have a different dictionary definition. you seem to be right that cahokians to fit to the list, so i guess they are a "country" but i feel "nation" fits better for some reason.
https://www.infoplease.com/world/general-world-statistics/state-country-and-nation
--- Quote from: State country and a nation ---What makes an independent State or a country today?
Has internationally recognized land and borders even if border disputes exist; (they built a city so that seems to fit)
Has permanent residents; (also seems to fit)
Has sovereignty so that no other country has power over its territory; (seems okay)
Has organized economic activity that regulates foreign and domestic trade and issues money; (did cahokians have a currency according to the wikipedia article? trading existed sure so i guess it counts)
Has a transportation network for moving goods and people; (okay)
Has an education system; (the wikipedia article did not mention anything about schools or an education system)
Has recognition from other independent states (okay)
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and i'm gonna eventually and obviously be a middle man (some tribes are this and some tribes are that) and say a major group of native americans (cherokee, seminoles, chickasaw and others) were not known for any stratified government, sovereignty or any other. however like what you may have said cahokians do somewhat fit to this list. so that's literally one tribe in North America out of the many, many others though.
not every native american tribe in North America has met up to what the cahokians have done to meet up as a "country" and what you were basically implying was the exact opposite. they are called nations most likely for a reason other than a country as for others.
Planr:
--- Quote from: SeventhSandwich on June 20, 2017, 08:48:02 PM ---"There is a stuffload of Catholics demanding that America be run by the Pope. They will soon be the majority in the US. When that happens some of them will claim seats in power and then be able to turn the US into the Vatican." -Protestant nativists in mid 19th century
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too bad catholics and the vatican don't continually go around chopping people's heads off en-masse for disagreeing with their beliefs, and degrading their women to the status of property and forcing them to cover up in burkas and hijabs. then it'd be like an islamic state.
SeventhSandwich:
--- Quote from: Timestamp on June 20, 2017, 10:11:44 PM ---
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You're acting like the word 'society' is some kind of mutually-exclusive concept from a country. All countries are societies, but not necessarily vice-versa. You haven't made a point here other than showing that you don't know what the words mean.
--- Quote from: Timestamp on June 20, 2017, 10:11:44 PM ---i would say they are a nation like the many, many, MANY people will name the groups because it fits with them well. sure the words "nation and a country" may be used differently or interchangable but weirdly enough they have a different dictionary definition. you seem to be right that cahokians to fit to the list, so i guess they are a "country" but i feel "nation" fits better for some reason.
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Historically a 'country' has basically just been any society large and contiguous enough to fight for itself. The only reason we don't call Native civilizations 'countries' is because it paints us as the bad guy when people learn about how we raped/murdered/conquered the Natives' country.
--- Quote from: Planr on June 20, 2017, 10:16:16 PM ---too bad catholics and the vatican don't continually go around chopping people's heads off en-masse for disagreeing with their beliefs
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You know what I'm going to say in response to this, so I might as well not even post it.
--- Quote from: Timestamp on June 20, 2017, 10:11:44 PM ---https://www.infoplease.com/world/general-world-statistics/state-country-and-nation
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Do you think Israel is a country? Because it certainly fails several of those categories you listed.