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The shifting politics of inequality and the class ceiling
Tayasaurus:
The ONLY way you can get any idea or system of communism to work is if you can magically change human nature. Until you can find a way of doing that, everything will fall short of what the idea actually wants. Dictators are merely the result of our nature getting the better of us as is proven over and over again throughout history. Being a communist is like thinking the earth is flat.
Johnimiester:
--- Quote from: PhantOS on July 08, 2017, 02:19:02 AM ---of course, that's the natural order of things. you're providing your service in exchange for money, and you are at the will of whoever is providing that money. It's the same thing with communism, except doing service and expecting one centralized entity to return the money, while in capitalism you have a thousand different entities which you can offer your services to
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There are multitudes of ideologies that advocate a decentralized communism.
It should also be said that by nature theft and bearing of one's power upon another in a setting in which it is decidedly clear who has most of the ability to do so is still such and is in itself a form of violence against the individual who can't fight for themselves. Even if there is a million unique opportunities for employment, most of them would still not involve any kind of real, inclusive workplace democracy or ownership of the workplace (a definitive goal and maxim of socialist ideologies), just as with the Soviet Union.
Karl Marx:
Since this is relevant again:
--- Quote from: Karl Marx on June 30, 2017, 11:02:17 PM ---Human nature is a weak argument. Humans are socialized by their environment, and a capitalist environment breeds capitalist morals.
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On top of that, the praxis of the Societ Union, for example, involves the complete centralization of power (theoretically temporarily). There are a multitude of different methods that have, essentially, not been attempted.
Cappytaino:
You seem to be confusing economic equality for prosperity. Take for example a country like Somalia. Most people are equal in the economic sense but that isn't indicative of prosperity.
Economic inequality doesn't mean something is inherently unfair. Correct me if I'm mistaken but you seem to be insinuating that equality of outcome is more important than equality of opportunity; that is to say, if I go to medical school and you flip burgers, it is inherently unfair that I make more money than you do despite spending many more years on my education and training?
Juncoph:
--- Quote from: TristanLuigi on July 08, 2017, 01:31:56 AM ---this is kind of a misconception about communism
it's never been "your computer and your granola bars belong to the state," it's "industry and land belongs to society" (which can mean the state, but a lot of communists are anarchists)
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the only realistic way to enforce societal ownership is through the state
that's why government property is "publicly owned", and not "privately owned"
--- Quote from: Karl Marx on July 08, 2017, 10:18:06 AM ---Since this is relevant again:
On top of that, the praxis of the Societ Union, for example, involves the complete centralization of power (theoretically temporarily). There are a multitude of different methods that have, essentially, not been attempted.
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name 1 that doesn't rely on the good faith of a dictator or the good faith of everyone to just not commit crime without a state to stop them