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The shifting politics of inequality and the class ceiling
Karl Marx:
--- Quote from: Maxwell. on July 08, 2017, 11:08:11 AM ---when have we ever reached anywhere near equality without it? when was the last time there was no government in power yet law and order still somehow held up?
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You can have a government / democracy without it being authoritarian.
--- Quote from: Cappytaino on July 08, 2017, 11:19:00 AM ---"capitalism doesn't work because people act in self-interest but communism will work because people won't act in self-interest"
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Self-interest under communism creates mutual prosperity regardless of intent. When the excess product inherent to labor is created, it is redistributed to others. If the individual wishes to create more for themselves, they will in turn create more surplus.
Maxwell.:
--- Quote from: Karl Marx on July 08, 2017, 10:56:28 AM ---Bill Gates
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you know he donates his money to charity too, right? I'd think you would support people willingly giving up their unneeded resources to benefit those less successful than themselves
or is that too much free market capitalism for you
--- Quote from: Karl Marx on July 08, 2017, 11:26:41 AM ---You can have a government / democracy without it being authoritarian.
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right, that's what most western governments are, but what's stopping one party holding all the power over the other? the will of the people?
--- Quote from: Karl Marx on July 08, 2017, 11:26:41 AM ---Self-interest under communism creates mutual prosperity regardless of intent. When the excess product inherent to labor is created, it is redistributed to others. If the individual wishes to create more for themselves, they will in turn create more surplus.
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but they made it for the sole purpose of doing what they wish with it; not to have to redistribute it (which they won't do easily unless a government or higher power steals from them)
of course I'm not trying to support no taxes either because that's also a handicapped form of anarchism
Ceist:
i have a solution. become a hive-mind, stellaris style.
Cappytaino:
But when you come to redistribution of resources, most people won't willingly give up their money or property, meaning you'll have to use force to seize property, which again will require some sort if governmental/military body.
You also are stealing in the most literal sense. Voting to steal from people doesn't change the fact that seizure of property by force is theft.
Juncoph:
--- Quote from: Karl Marx on July 08, 2017, 10:56:28 AM ---To my understanding, it involves the replacement of political parties with unions, in effect replacing the democracy of the elites with a democracy of the people. A decentralized government that democratically decides what laws to pass based on the consensus of a coalition of the working people.
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and what prevents the unions from becoming the elites?