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The shifting politics of inequality and the class ceiling
Karl Marx:
--- Quote from: Maxwell. on July 08, 2017, 11:30:55 AM ---you know he donates his money to charity too, right? I'd think you would support people willingly giving up their unneeded resources to benefit those less successful than themselves
or is that too much free market capitalism for you
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You act as though Microsoft doesn't benefit fron sweatshop labor, as if the mere existence of his outrageous amount of excess wealth does not actively contribute to the destruction of the middle class. It doesn't matter how often he donates to charity, he is still the epitome of disproportionately gaining from the labor of others.
--- Quote from: Cappytaino on July 08, 2017, 11:39:01 AM ---But when you come to redistribution of resources, most people won't willingly give up their money or property, meaning you'll have to use force to seize property, which again will require some sort if governmental/military body.
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There will be no forced seizure of property under communism, unless you are referring to the transformation of private property (property owned for the purpose of profit) to public property during the transition to socialism. There is no specifically agreed upon method of doing this, but the general idea is that all the needs of an individual will be met so long as enough people contribute to the system that ensures this same prosperity to everyone.
As far as incentives go, the right to pursue whatever you wish while your needs are met in full is a pretty good bargain. Motivating people to contribute won't be an issue.
--- Quote from: Juncoph on July 08, 2017, 11:39:04 AM ---and what prevents the unions from becoming the elites?
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How would you become an elite in a society where the number of people who do not wish to starve not only outnumber you, but have access to the same resources as you? Willpower?
Juncoph:
--- Quote from: Karl Marx on July 08, 2017, 12:13:42 PM --- How would you become an elite in a society where the number of people who do not wish to starve not only outnumber you, but have access to the same resources as you? Willpower?
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have you ever heard of a man named julius caesar?
with popular pressure, you can destroy a system in a time when it only needs reform.
Karl Marx:
--- Quote from: Juncoph on July 08, 2017, 12:28:17 PM ---have you ever heard of a man named julius caesar?
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The dude who got stabbed to death because of the phenomenon I described?
Juncoph:
--- Quote from: Karl Marx on July 08, 2017, 12:33:04 PM ---The dude who got stabbed to death because of the phenomenon I described?
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and his heir, octavian, went on to become who?
Karl Marx:
--- Quote from: Juncoph on July 08, 2017, 12:36:10 PM ---and his heir, octavian, went on to become who?
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Not to interrupt the banter, but I'm not entirely sure Rome is the greatest example of what I'm trying to illustrate here. Unless I'm mistaken, Rome still relied heavily on slave labor, and I think it would be fair to say that the majority of Romans did not have access to the means of production or education available to society today. If nothing else, I would think people would reject cults of personality if they went through the effort of unrooting capitalism as a society.