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[Real News] Obamacare Repeal Fails
Tactical Nuke:
--- Quote from: Red Spy on July 28, 2017, 04:50:10 AM ---half of me is sad that it isn't repealed and the other half is happy because any replacement drawn up thus far is basically obamacare lite
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Bisjac:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/obama-calls-for-courage-to-fix-obamacare
now obama is begging the dems to repair his broken bill.
forget him and his bad idea. im glad its falling flat on it's face. they can own it and will look the fools when it happens (its been already happening for a year and its glorious)
Trymos:
--- Quote from: ultimamax on July 28, 2017, 02:23:45 PM ---this makes absolutely no sense. why the forget would they need to bring it to a "breaking point" when they have FULL CONTROL OF THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS. they dont need to force the democrats into any kind of compromise at all.
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do you seriously think democrats have almost no power whatsoever?
the far right republicans want a more extreme healthcare bill
the moderate republicans want more of an obamacare lite
the democrats want to stick with obamacare going towards single payer, so everybody on the democrat party is gonna vote no to either of the above constantly, giving the republicans a stuffton less leeway to work with.
believe it or not: not everybody in a party agrees on the exact same things, wouldn't you think they would have passed a healthcare bill a long ass time ago if this was the case? either they make a compromise with themselves or with the democrats.
--- Quote from: ultimamax on July 28, 2017, 02:23:45 PM ---pretty much their only choice is to do "nothing at all" because they hold no majorities nor the presidency. you can't "stonewall" legislation if you dont have even a tie in either house or the presidency. the stuff they CAN do (like filibustering) wont stop anything, itll just delay it
your entire dumb argument was predicated on the notion that democrats have any legislative power at all right now
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think of it this way: democrats and independents alone can't prevent a bill from getting passed if every republican votes for it.
but that's implying every republican votes for it. they don't hold a supermajority, only a majority. implying that they have no power at all is handicapped of a notion. there are 52 republican senators, 46 democratic senators and 2 independent senators who generally lean left wing when it comes to healthcare bills.
historically every time republicans pushed a healthcare bill almost every democrat and independents voted no, so the amount of leeway the republicans have is 2-4 defectors max. so if at least 3-5 people on the republicans vote no that's it.
and with the moderate/far right healthcare divide on the republicans end this is problematic. you can get a lot of the republicans to compromise on their own healthcare bill since it's better than obamacare but due to the few that refuse to take the compromise, these bills can't pass.
no power my ass.
ultimamax:
--- Quote from: Trymos on July 28, 2017, 03:16:31 PM ---do you seriously think democrats have almost no power whatsoever?
the far right republicans want a more extreme healthcare bill
the moderate republicans want more of an obamacare lite
the democrats want to stick with obamacare going towards single payer, so everybody on the democrat party is gonna vote no to either of the above constantly, giving the republicans a stuffton less leeway to work with.
believe it or not: not everybody in a party agrees on the exact same things, wouldn't you think they would have passed a healthcare bill a long ass time ago if this was the case? either they make a compromise with themselves or with the democrats.
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i think youre underestimating the level to which partisanship is going to carry this process. i dont think most elected democrats have anything to gain by compromising, and i also don't think far right republicans and moderate republicans really disagree that much. its not like there is any significant faction of extremely libertarian/ancap republicans.
--- Quote from: Trymos on July 28, 2017, 03:16:31 PM ---think of it this way: democrats and independents alone can't prevent a bill from getting passed if every republican votes for it.
but that's implying every republican votes for it. they don't hold a supermajority, only a majority. implying that they have no power at all is handicapped of a notion. there are 52 republican senators, 46 democratic senators and 2 independent senators who generally lean left wing when it comes to healthcare bills.
historically every time republicans pushed a healthcare bill almost every democrat and independents voted no, so the amount of leeway the republicans have is 2-4 defectors max. so if at least 3-5 people on the republicans vote no that's it.
and with the moderate/far right healthcare divide on the republicans end this is problematic. you can get a lot of the republicans to compromise on their own healthcare bill since it's better than obamacare but due to the few that refuse to take the compromise, these bills can't pass.
no power my ass.
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i think the only reason any republicans defected at all during the skinny repeal is because of how dumb an idea it is to risk leaving the country with no system in place whatsoever. i definitely see some discord in the party when it comes to following the president but i dont think theyre as divided about healthcare as you say they are. if you have any examples though id like to see them
McZealot:
Annoying Orange used to advocate for universal healthcare before his corporate sponsors convinced him to run with a more pharma-friendly bill. he cucked all of his supporters and they love it