Charlottesville protests thread

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ShadowsfeaR:
It may not be right, but what he says makes total logical sense. Slaves didn't get education, or rarely some. You're in a developing country that just finished a loving civil war. I get that he would want well educated people voting for what will repair America. But certainly, that isn't what America should stand for. It should stand as allowing the voice of all its citizens. But those laws didn't exist then. For the time period he and America was in, it's a completely logical standpoint.

ultimamax:

--- Quote from: Tactical Nuke on August 13, 2017, 02:41:51 AM ---if MLK suddenly started being worshipped openly and loudly by black supremacist groups would that warrant his removal too

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Except MLK is actually redeemable from some angle. Robert E Lee wasn't even a good person by any respectable metric, even if you consider him in the context of the time.

--- Quote from: Alkatjo on August 13, 2017, 02:41:06 AM ---But the point is, if everyone didn't care then it (this conflict) wouldn't have mattered in the first place. If you're still pent up about a guy who did some terrible things way before your conception, then maybe you should take a second to question your ability to rationalize what matters vs what doesn't instead of washing it off as "OoooOooOoooh no. White people idolize this guy because of slavery yatta yatta etc". You recognizing this problem IS the problem.

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The existence of a white supremacist monument props up white supremacy which hurts people I care about. This is not about Robert E Lee. If people were mad that there was still a statue of Riddler in the middle of Berlin, would you be mad at them for caring? You're essentially calling for every human to disregard the power of symbology entirely. Like it or not it's part of our psychology, even if that's inconvenient to your dumbass ideology.

--- Quote from: ShadowsfeaR on August 13, 2017, 02:45:51 AM ---Wow way to take that to an extreme. Slow the forget down and listen. People are condemning what is, ultimately, a piece of artwork. This artwork depicts a man named Robert E. Lee. Yes he led confederate troops against the north, supporting their views. A defeated man, he concedes to his opponent and then educates himself. I value someone who has experience and learns from their mistakes, they ultimately have much wider viewpoints than most. I condemn what he stood for when he fought against the North, but he died as a person who wanted to help spread equality in America. Why should you continue to hate a person who changed their viewpoint to what you actually agree with?

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Idk if Riddler really escaped to Argentina and opened up a no-kill dog shelter and learned to love Jews again idk if I'd want a statue of him in Berlin still. Regardless, it seems like most of the people protesting the removal of the statue revere it because they're loving white supremacists, not because he was a changed man after all the stuff he pulled.

--- Quote from: Tactical Nuke on August 13, 2017, 02:47:19 AM ---his response was a long version of "I don't care guys look at how virtuous I am for not caring as much as you"

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Exactly, it was centrist garbage.

--- Quote from: PhantOS on August 13, 2017, 02:47:57 AM ---he didn't have some radical change of heart. he always believed that black people were inferior, but he also believed that they should be treated with some level of humanity. he continued to hold slaves for 10 years after their contract was changed, and he wrote that he wanted to find someone who would treat the slaves fairly.

however that's the equivalent of saying 'i raped a woman but it's okay because i gave her a ride home afterwards' sure you're better than someone who would just rape a woman, but that's not winning you any medals. why not glorify someone who didn't actually rape any women. maybe instead glorify someone who helped comfort rape victims

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Yeah don't just claim he was an amazing person because he sort of changed his mind after

Magus:

--- Quote from: ShadowsfeaR on August 13, 2017, 02:54:23 AM ---It may not be right, but what he says makes total logical sense. Slaves didn't get education, or rarely some. You're in a developing country that just finished a loving civil war. I get that he would want well educated people voting for what will repair America. But certainly, that isn't what America should stand for. It should stand as allowing the voice of all its citizens. But those laws didn't exist then. For the time period he and America was in, it's a completely logical standpoint.

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Somewhat agreeable, as democracy requires an educated populace in order to make good decisions and not be misled as easily.

IkeTheGeneric:

--- Quote from: Tactical Nuke on August 13, 2017, 02:47:19 AM ---his response was a long version of "I don't care guys look at how virtuous I am for not caring as much as you"

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I'm not sure how 20 pages of people saying "how horrible" and moving on is much different from a 20-page argument between a handful of people who will never agree to disagree.

PhantOS:
yeah a democracy can't exist when you subjectively invalidate people's voting rights. how are you going to improve the educational rights of black citizens when you don't let them vote on a bill that improves the educational rights of black citizens?

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