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| Catalonia's independence movement died before it started |
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| TristanLuigi:
--- Quote from: Kearn on October 29, 2017, 12:18:20 AM ---you do understand that the "rights" a person has are entirely up to the whims of the dominant society, right? do you think the muslim world would agree gay marriage and abortion are "rights"? the overwhelming majority of the world would disagree with you on a huge swath of what you consider "rights" and the fact that you seem to think that people have the right to violate the democratically established laws of their own country is amazing to me --- End quote --- They're not democratic laws if the people no longer support them, and in fact actively want to overturn them. The fact that you don't comprehend that is amazing to me. (Also, the rights of individuals are not the same as the rights of society at large. This is why taxes are acceptable in a democratic society - they may be supported by the majority, if not singular individuals. On the contrary, it's why the Holocaust is not acceptable - even if a majority of people approved of it, it still violates individual rights.) |
| beachbum111111:
--- Quote from: TristanLuigi on October 29, 2017, 12:18:58 AM ---They're not democratic laws if the people no longer support them, and in fact actively want to overturn them. The fact that you don't comprehend that is amazing to me. --- End quote --- Ah yes that damning 40% of the Catalan population |
| Ceist:
--- Quote from: TristanLuigi on October 29, 2017, 12:11:42 AM ---The law is not always right. --- End quote --- We both agreed this is a subjective statement. Honestly this can't be used to justify any arguments you make. |
| TristanLuigi:
--- Quote from: Ceist on October 29, 2017, 12:21:07 AM ---We both agreed this is a subjective statement. Honestly this can't be used to justify any arguments you make. --- End quote --- On the same token, the law can't be used to justify any argument others make, unless your worldview is that "all laws are right and moral." Hence, the legality of secession is irrelevant. The argument isn't "is Catalan secession legal" (the answer is obviously no), it's "should Catalonia be allowed to secede" (which is independent of the legality). If one thinks that, yes, all laws are right and moral, then I guess there's no real argument to be had. But I doubt most people would agree with that. |
| Ceist:
--- Quote from: TristanLuigi on October 29, 2017, 12:22:21 AM ---On the same token, the law can't be used to justify any argument others make, unless your worldview is that "all laws are right and moral." Hence, the legality of secession is irrelevant. The argument isn't "is Catalan secession legal" (the answer is obviously no), it's "should Catalonia be allowed to secede" (which is independent of the legality). If one thinks that, yes, all laws are right and moral, then I guess there's no real argument to be had. But I doubt most people would agree with that. --- End quote --- Law's can be used to justify an argument however, that's how courts make decisions. To make this point relevant to discussion, here's some info. The High Court Justice of Catalonia issued orders to the police to prevent the elections. https://elpais.com/ccaa/2017/09/20/catalunya/1505885372_273143.html https://es.reuters.com/article/topNews/idESKCN1C42K5-OESTP http://www.elnacional.cat/en/news/catalan-court-mossos-close-polling-stations-referendum_195894_102.html If you want to make the argument about whether they should, the obvious answer is also no, and you've attuned yourself to that idea as well in an earlier post of yours. |
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