Author Topic: what do people look for in a weaponset (Read 4872 times)

torin� · December 23, 2017, 04:41:46 AM

Quote from: Rally on December 20, 2017, 04:09:46 PM

Proper use of the texture system, as in like using Black50, Black25 and so on, that way I know the majority of the playerbase is going to see the intended colors instead of blank white crap. Having one weapon for each logical class (assault rifle, marksman rifle, sniper rifle, shotgun) is a plus. Having two weapons for each class and having one weapon come from 1st word and the other coming from the 2nd world is a big plus.

I don't like hit-scan crap or weapons that are incredibly inaccurate unless you're like crouching and only firing once per year. I don't like invisible projectiles. I don't like intrusive overly complicated animations like you see in that ancient L4D pack, mostly because it looks like stuff for anyone who has more than like 0.2 yoctoseconds of latency

Balancing is cool but I think a lot of weapon makers go overboard with it and end up making guns that feel really weak and lame to shoot or they end up making weapons that can't hit the broad side of a barn door at 10ft. Just having weapons that function logically is enough for me

Don't like weapon that prints a ton of stuff to my screen. I get the need for ammo counters but it almost always looks like crap imo and it really peeves me when the gamemode and player weapon are fighting for a space on the centerprint/bottomprint

Quote from: Legodude77 on December 21, 2017, 06:43:09 AM

NO FOV ISSUES WHY DO YOU PUT "ZOOMING" IN YOUR WEAPON PACKS IF YOU DON'T TAKE IN ACCOUNT PEOPLE HAVING DIFFERENT FOV'S? BLOCKLAND BY DEFAULT HAS A ZOOM FUNCTION YOU DON'T NEED TO ADD ONE THAT MESSES WITH PEOPLE'S FOV!

Quote from: supermasterfighter on December 22, 2017, 03:03:01 PM

People want:
*models that aren't complete utter stuff
*decent sounds (nothing that cuts early, has no reverb, or has too much reverb)
*glass preferences: Make ammo and sights an optional thing, people like options, and not everyone likes ammo or sights
*variety
*for the people that like ammo and sights, make a system that allows for attachments, such as the ability to add attachments (if you have a large amount of attachments) or if the attachment amount is small, just make different variations of the same gun (similar to how the vanilla weaponset is set up)
*balanced weapons, a g17 should be able to hold its own against an m16, but not be equal to it.

Also, make the projectiles go faster than the default gun, and if you add bullet drop and accuracy variation, make that a thing in options. Some people like their bullets to fall right where they want it to and some like it semi-realistic.

these

Ad Bot · Advertisement

Momentum · December 23, 2017, 09:15:01 AM

models so detailed and unoptimized that the polycount reaches five figures
photorealistic textures on the weapons
long, broken animations that replace the color of your player's hands (preferably to black gloves)
sounds ripped from youtube that clip the entire way through
propietary ammunition system that works differently from every weapon in the pack
ultra specific names for each weapon (ex. m4a1 stealth carbine NATO reissue with custom silencer)

do all this and it'll be the most popular weaponpack

Bisjac · December 23, 2017, 09:23:39 AM

not too many just for the sake of having a lot.

need a good balance of different types, not tons and tons of the same gun with different models and sound fx.

Gytyyhgfffff · December 23, 2017, 11:02:03 AM

why instakill is bad:
does not give players time to react to an attack

good weapons give people enough time to react to an attack so they can fight back
usually fights that are slower where the weapons are not extremely powerful are more fun, because opponents will be able to apply tactics and skill more effectively which leads to player satisfaction. it is not satisfying to be suddenly killed in one hit and lose just because your enemy saw you first, it is satisfying to engage your opponent and use superior tactics/aim/positioning to win.

good players are now even better at killing entire teams in one life

really disorienting, when you're killed you rarely have any clue to what killed you which is frustrating

when you see me saying instakill weapons are bullstuff in the servers i play i am referring to how they are super frustrating to deal with because there is no good means of combating them except committing the original sin of switching my class to the sniper class or any other instakill class. this begs the question of what if i dont want to play the instakill class? then well im forgeted because i have to play it to stop the enemy from instakilling me without repercussion

it is rarely done correctly, leading to a lot of bullstuff which in turn leads to all of the above

correctly done instakill weapons have serious disadvantages when it comes to certain factors, those factors being aim and positioning. aim is the ability for a player to hit their target, while positioning is the ability of effectively using cover and avoiding bullets. a good DM player will have mastered both aim and positioning; being able to hit targets consistently and avoid all target's shots consistently. these two principles of DM are omnipresent in all DM and nerfing the player's ability to do one or the other is a surefire way of making good balance changes. for example: a well-nerfed instakill weapon might not nerf aim at all, which means the weapon has a long range and good accuracy, but it might nerf positioning as in making the player really slow (and maybe even removing crouch in a server that god forbid has bonus damage on headshot for all weapons so they can't dodge critical hits as easily from machine guns or pistols). this positioning nerf forces snipers to improve their aim skill in order to make up for their stuffty movement, so they do not lose combat effectiveness. enemy players can avoid the sniper easily, because once spotted you know the sniper will not be moving around too much so they can't surprise you by moving to a completely different part of the map in a few seconds (see: widowmaker and how bullstuff she is). but, the enemy must be careful because this sniper is still deadly at long ranges. however, an enemy in close range will be able to easily combat this sniper class, because the sniper class cannot reposition as easily to avoid enemy shots. another nerf option would be to nerf aim, such as a shotgun that has low range. this forces players to be much better at positioning to make up for their stuffty range, like sneaking around to enemy players and surprising them with your shotgun. enemy players will find it easier to combat a shotgunner at long range, due to the shotgun's stuffty range. however, the enemy must be weary of the shotgunner at close range, as the shotgunner will always win the close range duel.

instakill fallacies:
nerfing damage of a instakill sniper will lead to the sniper being stuff

this is false. kinessa, a class in paladins (it's paladins, i know) is a sniper that does not kill in one hit. she only deals 1200 damage on headshot (all non-tank classes have like 1800-2200 HP in paladins) but this does not lead to her being as ineffective as you might think. instead of taking the route of nerfing either aim or positioning, the developers opted to reduce her damage instead. she is still able to move around quickly due to her teleport ability (for those unfamiliar its like widowmaker's grapple hook (for those unfamiliar "paladins character's x is like overwatch character's y" is how all classes in paladins work)) which makes her a really effective sniper, because when played skillfully she can avoid death and continue dealing a decent amount of damage.
additionally, i nerfed the damage of a sniper in a warhammer tdm server i was making that sadly never saw the light of day to 50 (with all players having 100 hp) and even nerfed his positioning by adding a charge system where you charge up your shot and move slowly when doing so. this sniper was still a good class due to long corridors built into the map which meant he could help pick off enemy targets, but enemy targets once hit could avoid him in future or even launch a sneak attack on him once discovering him. people making weapon packs should take into consideration the type of DM/TDM they're making these weapons for and balance accordingly and factor in stuff like map design and what kind of playertypes will be using the weapons and etc.

all instakill is bad

this is false. instakill weapons, when balanced well, do not outclass other weapons and can even compliment other classes/weapons well (a sniper at the rear of a team helping to defend the tanks pushing forwards) while still having flaws that enemies can exploit to kill the one wielding the sniper. all i'm saying in this post is most instakill weapons in blockland DM are done poorly and can be fixed by applying basic nerfs. i once was a naive child who when presented with any instakill weapon had an autism attack but after learning the two factors of DM, aim and positioning, i now know that instakill weapons can be made to be not entirely bullstuff.

also don't name your stupid ass weapons after their real life names because nobody gives half a stuff or knows any of the names. go quake style and call a shotgun a shotgun and call the bigger shotgun the super shotgun

i've played thousands of hours of DM/TDM so i know what i'm talking about if you disagree post your reasons to why then fight me in warsow to see who is correct or not

Drydess · December 23, 2017, 11:06:04 AM

DON'T MAKE THEM HITSCAN HOLY stuff

Gytyyhgfffff · December 23, 2017, 11:13:14 AM

hitscan sniper rifles can be balanced using the same principles i described. my warhammer 40k server sniper rifle class was hitscan, but due to the extreme positioning and damage nerfs the hitscan was not insanely overpowered. the sniper rifle in tournaments was indirectly nerfed by including player shields that didn't allow enemies to headshot you in just one hit, despite the headshot dealing 100 damage. another indirect nerf is in the map design: there is plenty of cover laying around that allows players to avoid the sniper rifle entirely. since the sniper rifle doesn't have an AOE attack and there are no secondaries that had a good long range AOE, simply hiding behind a wall protected you from any damage the enemy could deal to you.

Zeblote · December 23, 2017, 11:19:16 AM

Quote from: Gytyyhgfffff on December 23, 2017, 11:02:03 AM

also don't name your stupid ass weapons after their real life names because nobody gives half a stuff or knows any of the names. go quake style and call a shotgun a shotgun and call the bigger shotgun the super shotgun

this part is extremely important for everyone who isn't american

SWAT One · December 23, 2017, 12:02:32 PM

Balance: A handful of weapons cannot me stronger than the rest in any situation, rather, each weapon needs to have its strengths and weaknesses, and perform better in different circumstances.

Uniqueness: I don't like to see a pack where I can say, "Oh look, another AK47/MP5/M16 reskin". Those packs, in my mind, are complete garbage unless you are trying to make a period-accurate TDM where each side is represented by competing manufacturers. If you are trying to make a generic TDM or FFA/DM, then it is appropriate to have generic names and generic functions.

Ease of Use: If you gotta go through 4 loving animations to reload or some stuff, in my mind, this pack is garbage. Once again, if you are going for the hyper-realism thing, then that's fine and it's not my cup of tea. Most people want guns which can be reloaded using a single butting press or alt click. Additionally, if you are displaying ammo counts, make this intuitive as well.

Variety: Everyone wants a weapon pack which is a multi-tool, else why would they download it. They want weapons which can operate effectively at multiple ranges with the same action and also has various other firing actions. You should be able to fulfil every conceivable role in a Blockland TDM or FFA/DM, however, do not add too many guns. Players are never interested in long download time, and server owners don't want idiot players arguing over loadout semantics. If you have a few select choices, then these deliberations can end quickly.

Good Media: Most know that realism, even semi-realism is not compatible with the Blockland style. Weapon models need to be blocky, using hexagonal or octagonal cross sections whenever possible and use beveled edges when tasteful. Visual effects, most importantly, particle effects, need to be tasteful and not to presumptuous. Last but not least is sound quality. Usually, this is one of those things that gets downplayed a lot, but when the creator puts extra effort into this, you end up with a lot of people praising the sounds that the pack uses.

Widespread Usage: The quality of a pack in part is due to how many users use the pack. People are not interested in learning how to use and balance a new pack which operates similarly when they have 2-3 others that they are used to and are fully proficient in using. This isn't usually within the creator's control, but following the above steps will help you achieve this one as well.

Beyond Neptune · December 23, 2017, 11:18:53 PM

Variety
Balance
Good Looking
Good Gunplay

cooolguy32 · December 23, 2017, 11:40:40 PM

Quote from: Drydess on December 23, 2017, 11:06:04 AM

DON'T MAKE THEM HITSCAN HOLY stuff

d · December 24, 2017, 07:30:30 PM

-Guns that you have to assemble yourself
-Guns that jam
-Guns that use magazines as items
-Guns that use individual bullets as items

Ayebee1234 · December 24, 2017, 07:42:34 PM

guns that aren't like the battlefield weps

~~also tactical nukes hehe~~

Tactical Nuke · December 25, 2017, 02:38:18 PM

are the snipers from tier tactical hitscan

I could probably guess the OSR uses hitscan but the snipers from tier tactical seem to have a set range to them

DeadFromHeaven · December 27, 2017, 04:26:07 PM

Quote from: Shift Kitty on December 23, 2017, 02:59:52 AM

But. Serious Sam had all that. Revolvers reloaded and had infinite ammo. Sniper could scope. Lasergun fired projectiles instead of raycasts.
But I do think a Serious Sam weapon pack would be great. Especially if it was all the weapons from the second encounter. Though the cannon would be difficult. You'd have to shoot a ball vehicle out of it and hope it doesn't forget up.

it could just probably be a normal cannonball projectile, but you can still charge it up and make it fire further, pretty much a handheld pirate cannon but with ammo