AK-94 (Full auto version released)

[Not an alt]

obviously, i'm not suggesting he make the gun deal no damage, but an assault rifle should do like 20 damage per shot or something. the default gun does 30 already so having an ak94 that fires 3x as fast as the default gun but has the same damage is really overpowered.

i get you're trying to start an argument with me but i see right through that stuff. overpowered guns are just as bad as underpowered guns

if the gun is fast but only does 10 damage it sucks
if it is slow and does 30-35-40 damage it sucks

if it is fast and does 33 damage then it is fine and fun to use on tdms

[Ad Bot]

[PhantOS]

if the gun is fast but only does 10 damage it sucks
if it is slow and does 30-35-40 damage it sucks

if it is fast and does 33 damage then it is fine and fun to use on tdms

sorry but a gun that kills you in 1/4th a second isn't fun, it's overpowered. nowhere did i advocate nerfing the gun so hard that it becomes as weak as a paintball gun, i just said that it shouldn't be as powerful as a gamma ray mini cannon, which it might as well be because you basically lose half your health before you can actually react and plot a good strategy to fight against this guns akimbo reskin

• good weapons give people enough time to react to an attack so they can fight back
• usually fights that are slower where there are weapons are not extremely powerful damage-wise are more fun, because opponents will be able to apply tactics and skill more effectively which leads to player satisfaction. it is not satisfying to be suddenly killed in one hit and lose just because your enemy saw you first, it is satisfying to engage your opponent and use superior tactics/aim/positioning to win.

good players are now even better at killing entire teams in one life

really disorienting, when you're killed you rarely have any clue to what killed you which is frustrating

[Not an alt]

sorry but a gun that kills you in 1/4th a second isn't fun, it's overpowered. nowhere did i advocate nerfing the gun so hard that it becomes as weak as a paintball gun, i just said that it shouldn't be as powerful as a gamma ray mini cannon, which it might as well be because you basically lose half your health before you can actually react and plot a good strategy to fight against this guns akimbo reskin

yeah but gamma rays kill differently than a ballistic weapon :IIIIIIII
gamma rays kill using gamma radiation which kills cells and can form cancers
ballistic weapons use a bullet that is firing out of a bullet out of a gun at high speed to penetrate its target to cause damage

big difference sir

[Protoss Dragoon]

nowhere did i advocate nerfing the gun so hard that it becomes as weak as a paintball gun, i just said that it shouldn't be as powerful as a gamma ray mini cannon

a gamma ray mini cannon

lol

[Verification]

Phant "I survived 12 shots to the head in nam" OS

[Mr. Bones]

You think this is a strong gun? You've never seen the Combat Rifle...

[Shift Kitty]

I find it amusing you say (3-4 shots) and (4-5 shots) when projectiles don't have damage ranges. With a 100 health player, it was 4 and is now 5.

And to argue against both sides.

vs "its op"
This gun isn't that much faster than the default gun. It's not a significant advantage over the default gun. It took the same number of hits to kill. Obviously, not everything has to be equal. You're not gonna put someone with the option to choose between the default gun and this gun, otherwise the choice would be obvious. But maybe you could use classes, or weapon pickups. It also has bullet drop and can't fakekill bricks. Now that the damage is decreased, it actually has the exact same time to kill as the default gun. So now it's weaker in terms of the bullet drop and inability to fakekill. But stronger in terms of putting out more bullets.

vs "omg phantos its not realistic if it takes 24 hits to kill"
See I can exaggerate as well. He's not saying 12 headshots to kill is fine. You don't need to nerf something to the grave in order to make it less overpowered.


That being said, I think it needs it's damage back. Because right now it's not any better than the gun.

[PhantOS]

as a general rule guns shouldn't be that much more or less powerful than the default gun. the default gun is already pretty damn powerful. i think the ak94 should be like 24 damage so 90% of the time it'll kill in 4 hits but when you 1v1 someone it'll take 5

[Conan]

as a general rule guns shouldn't be that much more or less powerful than the default gun. the default gun is already pretty damn powerful. i think the ak94 should be like 24 damage so 90% of the time it'll kill in 4 hits but when you 1v1 someone it'll take 5

with that philosophy tho then all guns would be the same and there's no point to variety.....

also thats still approx 4 hits cause most likely you'll get one hit on them while they're crouching which doubles damage

[PhantOS]

oh thats true.

with that philosophy tho then all guns would be the same and there's no point to variety.....

well yeah... 'variety' can only be achieved by the niches the guns fill also the art used in their design. but if you take that away its all basically either better, worse, or the same as the default gun. guns that are objectively worse than others are not worth using against better guns, and better guns are worth using more, etc. balance is pretty important because it kills the usage of almost all other guns except the best one

[Conan]

oh thats true.
well yeah... 'variety' can only be achieved by the niches the guns fill also the art used in their design. but if you take that away its all basically either better, worse, or the same as the default gun. guns that are objectively worse than others are not worth using against better guns, and better guns are worth using more, etc. balance is pretty important because it kills the usage of almost all other guns except the best one

u need to stop talking in absolutes cause what you're saying is provably false

a very obvious example is a shotgun. shotguns would be better than the default gun at certain ranges but worse at longer. due to its longer refire time though, it fares slightly worse than default gun at high mid range cause you can predict and dodge individual shots more easily while spamming your own back.

other factors to consider include how the gun fires (burst fire for easier leading, full auto for large crowds or multiple enemies, shotgun spread compensating for bad aim at mid-short ranges, sniper for very high damage at any range but punishable if badly positioned/user has bad aim), recoil/screen shake, knockback, projectile visibility (magnum bullets vs sniper bullets in how much you feel like backing the forget up + how easy it is to figure out where the enemy is).

on top of that the model of the gun itself can come into play - how much it obstructs your screen, where exactly do the bullets come out from, how visible it is from a distance or through walls.

and i didnt even start talking about sound design, special projectile properties (brick damage, bouncing, entry, etc), or area of effect damage



there's no benefit in being reductionist (comparing every gun to default gun/talking about gun design solely using aspects present in default gun) - any critique around it is essentially worthless (assumes a standard when the standard itself isnt well defined or comprehensive). even though you can use these arguments against this gun in particular, using it in general is bad as its only purpose is to make yourself feel like you're being insightful or helpful, while in reality you're doing the equivalent of using big words to sound smart

[PhantOS]

but... :((

alright conan i'll defer to your superior advice

[Conan]

lol i didn't mean to shut you down that hard

but ya theres a lot to gun design. i feel like blocklands the perfect place to experiment with the more extreme versions, for example a garbage gun that shoots weak projectiles with big models that hinder view/proper aiming back at the attacker while flying through the air, and when hitting an enemy slows them down.

or like an oversized airhorn that knocks back and screenshakes anyone hit like there's a 11.0 earthquake.

basically really push the limit of what defines a weapon to be a weapon and experiment with makes something feel threatening