IDF VS HAMAS

Author Topic: IDF VS HAMAS  (Read 2253 times)



I don't really have the energy to keep updating this thread with the horrible events in Gaza, but on twitter this morning I learned that
One aid worker was killed and twenty-two others were injured when Israeli forces attacked a food distribution center in Rafah, which, once again, I should point out was supposed to be a safe evacuation area for refugees

[Edit] So apparently these were UN aid workers that were killed in this bombing?
What would Israel gain in their war on Hamas for killing UN aid workers?
I cant think of a single thing.
However, killing aid workers would help if your goal is to deprive the Palestinian citizens from the support they need to not die from starvation.


Oh and again responding to:
As for medical and press, you're gonna have to source that.
in case you weren't swayed when I posted the link earlier of the 95 marked members of the press killed (as of the time i posted that link) because so many of them were were reporters from Israel, Lebanon, and Palestine that you might have thought maybe they were just killed by accident:
Another, Clearly Marked Journalist from Reuters, an international press agency, was purposefully killed by an Israeli Tank when it shot into a group of journalists with clear press markings, in violation of international law




oh my god I had not really been reading the daily updates before last week so I completely missed the

Massacre that occured on Feburary 29th, as 112 people were killed and over 750 injured as they were waiting to receive food aid.

and now the more I read into events that I had missed in the past the less of a benefit of the doubt I can give your attempts at arguing that this is not attempted genocide.



I think for my own mental health, this will have to be my last update on this thread.

If you wish to still support the Israeli "Defense" Force at this point I am going to have to assume you will not change your mind. If there is a specific set of actions that they would have to take to earn your denouncement, then I will leave it up to you to keep yourself informed of their activities and decide when they have finally crossed the line.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2024, 01:39:43 PM by Ladios »

I can add a few I saw: some "really deadly Hamas terrorists," aka two football players, have been killed for no loving reason.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2024, 09:33:02 AM by Swholli »

I have not seen the OP respond in several days now. I hope that it is because he has reconsidered his opinion but does not know how to close out the thread gracefully.

I completely understand, and do not hold it against you, Soukuw. Everyone can only act on the the information they have, and for those of us in America, many news sources deliberately skip over information that would be prudent for us to know if we want to make systemic changes.

If you are willing to consider this "debate" over, I am too.
I would like to leave some closing points based on discussion i have seen arise between others in this thread:



First of all, I want to make it clear, kidnapping civillians is wrong, no matter who does it. However, the problem with the discourse of "what about Hamas" is that it puts the Palestinians in a position where they must denounce the only group of people who are trying to fight for their rights and liberties. Of course the majority of Palestinians would approve of what has been left as their only option for recourse.

The US had previously declined to recognize Palestine as an independent state until they are able to self govern,
however,
even when the US itself is the one to suggest allowing Palestinian self-government, Neyanyahu continues to refuse to hear any discussion about the topic.



Second, it has been discussed here that the Middle-East is and will always be in a perpetual state of war. That there is no peace. That simply is not true. There are people on both sides that want a ceasefire, people on both sides that understand the loss of human life is not worth whatever new land is cleared for development.

The enemy is not the people of Palestine, nor is it the people of Israel. Many Israeli citizens have spoken out and protested over the treatement of their Palestinian neighbors.

Our enemy has, and will continue to be, the Imperialist Ruling Class that continues to benefit from these decisions.This state of constant warfare is not natural, and decidedly avoidable.

Israeli Prime Minister, Yitzhak Rabin had made significant progress on establishing a Lasting Peace with the Palestinian Government.
He won a Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts.
Indeed these past couple decades of continued warfare could have been avoided if he were not Assassinated by Far-Right Israeli-Nationalist Extremists in 1995.




Finally, the United States continues to fund and profit from this state-sponsered genocide, yet the American People do not agree to these activities.

In what is the largest disconnect in history between the opinions of voters and the positions of our representatives in congress, 60-70% of All Americans Across Party Lines Support a Ceasefire. Yes, even the republicans.

This is in contrast to the 11% of congress members who support a ceasefire.

Many of the congress members who advocate for the continuing war and genocide recieve funding from AIPAC, an Israeli-state endorsed PAC that influences the policies of our goverment. (This is despite Federal Law Forbidding Candidate Funding from Foreign Governments.) And further, the AIPAC continues to fund opponents of those congressional representatives who support a peace agreement

This has lead to many Disturbing acts of censorship within our very government when people speak out about these atrocities

Your takeaway should be that these are people who's vote relies on us. Our representatives, a body of goverment much more easily changeable than the president, can be voted out of office in favor of those who are actually willing to consider peace.

Please vote. Please call your representatives and demand a ceasefire.



If these facts have swayed you, and you find yourself in the economic position to, you can try to also make donations to aid those suffering in Palestine.
I suggest the Palestinian Children Relief Fund

It's not much, but it's better than nothing while we wait for next election.



And my heart breaks to have to leave with more bad news, but it looks like the Israeli Military is now making plans to launch a final invasion of Rafah, the only remaining safezone to Palestinian Refugees.
Quote
Speaking during a visit to Israeli army officers in Gaza City, Gallant warned “those who think we are delaying [the invasion of Rafah] will soon see there is no place we cannot reach.”
« Last Edit: March 13, 2024, 03:11:18 PM by Ladios »


I have not seen the OP respond in several days now. I hope that it is because he has reconsidered his opinion but does not know how to close out the thread gracefully.
Nah I just haven't taken the time to sit down and respond to your edit1: edit2: edit3: new post while at the same time whining about not having the energy to respond to my responses.

No need to continue to make bizarre bad faith assumptions

Girl forget you and ya raggedy ass mama and I mean that

It can be very emotionally taxing to watch in real time as more innocent people are being killed on a near hourly basis.
I tried to respond to as many of your points as I could, while at the same time making sure the primary argument I have made, that the Palestinians are currently suffering from an intentionally genocidal act, is pointed out.

I never said that I assumed you were arguing in bad faith. In fact, in my very quote I had assumed that the evidence I provided had swayed you, insinuating that you were not arguing in bad faith.

You are under no obligation to respond to any of the information I provided. I know that I could only find the energy to address a few of your points directly. I do not know if you saw that attempt, but I suppose if you did, I obviously did not do a good enough job to warrant recognizing the rebuttals.

Still, if hundreds of people being massacred because they are trying to line up to receive food handouts is not something that you deem relevant enough to the conversation then I really have nothing more I can offer. I have tried to be civil to the extent that the heightened emotions that surround over a million people actively starving (due to a war that Israel has refused every single ceasefire offer for), and hundreds of thousands of civillians being murdered or severely wounded, will allow.

I am not saying that you are arguing in bad faith, I am merely acknowledging my limitations in being able to provide the exact examples you require to see this ongoing tragedy for what it is. I am sorry I have failed you. I attempted to provide you with as much information as I could to help you make an informed opinion on the situation since you seemed so concerned that I did not provide links in my earlier posts. I had intended to be thorough and it was easier and more organized to tack on more information onto the posts then to just spam the thread with a bunch of new posts.

[edit]
But Also,
Nah I just haven't taken the time to sit down and respond to your edit1: edit2: edit3: new post
You say this like I didn't actively monitor the thread to see when you were viewing it. At no time did post edits occur after you had a chance to view the thread with the previous post. That is why there ended up being a couple double posts there. I could have just collected all this information into one giant post and include it days late but then i am sure you would have complained about some wall of text.

Nah, you know what
Stop being a little bitch. People have only so much emotional capacity. You don't want people to whine about being tired of reporting ongoing genocide? Maybe you shouldnt treat this like a loving game.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2024, 11:06:17 PM by Ladios »

:)

For the record ladios I was really enjoying talking to you, I'll look through what you said a few times and maybe make another topic. I think this one has run it's course.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2024, 02:08:53 AM by Soukuw »