Off Topic > Off Topic
Kids and politics
Nightzet467:
--- Quote from: devildogelite on October 07, 2009, 07:55:06 PM ---Nightzet, the Joker is really gay
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mkay
EDIT: mkay
Inv3rted:
--- Quote from: Wedge on October 07, 2009, 06:56:48 PM ---Since you are not religious, would it be fair for me to assume that you believe that religion was constructed and in fact evolved around a of commonly held set of beliefs, principles, practices and superstitions? And that, indeed, if religion is only a construct of humans that originated in a set of common beliefs, the commonly held set of beliefs that are behind the religion must have come first? People have to believe something is true before they can tell themselves God says it's true. And using the definition of morals as a commonly held system of what is right and wrong, morals most likely emerged before religion?
I'm not saying that all morals are from religion, and I thought I made that clear in a previous post. I am saying that our society is infested with religious morals, which we do not need and are harmful to society.
Perhaps the morals we follow, while surrounded in what you believe to be a lot of mysticism, have a far more ancient origin. Many morals are not specific to any particular religion, perhaps they emerged simultaneously around the world in different cultures and tribes because they were necessary for the survival of society?
There is no 'belief' of mysticism here. Religion is mystic by default. Indeed, the point you are making here is exactly why I am saying religion is not required for morality. Religious morality is harmful to society.
Morals, while a key part of many religions, are not in and of themselves religious. An example of a moral is "Killing is wrong." Many people believe "Killing is wrong because God says so" but also believe "Killing is wrong." I'm not entirely certain what it is what you want to do. You say that you want to produce a "religiousless set of morals." I believe that morals are inherently religiousless although they may have a religious context and history built around them. The Ten Commandments have no real use, considering they have basic ethical doctrines mixed in with arrogant policies to give power to controllers. Morality, as I said a while back, is essentially what is good and bad for the species as a whole. Things that damage society are immoral because our species requires society. Things that directly harm other members of the species are immoral because that's quite obviously direct harm to the species. It appears to me anyway, that what you really mean to say is that "I am afraid that in current society morals are taught in a fashion that leads people to see them in a religious context and I cannot stand it." No, what I am saying is that people take doctrines directly out of religious texts and attempt to make them apply to society. This is fundamentally wrong. Other moral arguments in current society arise from ignorance directly (STEM CELL RESEARCH KILLS BABIES), but are overwhelmingly agreed with by the conservative Christians, whose fundamental beliefs revolve around ignoring the scientific process. There could not be anything worse for society than that.
Snackbar appears to be saying that ethical behavior (and by the way your argument of secular ethics vs superstitious morals does not fly with my dictionary) can exist outside of religion and that just because a moral may appear in a religious context does not necessarily mean it should be ignored, which appears to actually agree with what you are arguing. Rughugger never said ethical behavior could not exist outside of religion, you built up your own straw man. He and others implied that the Ten Commandments were valid moral guidelines. This, in turn, implies that removal of any commandments, which are said to be 'moral', would be immoral.
Also calling them idiots makes you look like a huge douchebag and takes away from whatever point you appear to be trying to make but I'm sure you don't care.
You're right.
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--- Quote from: Rughugger on October 07, 2009, 07:32:05 PM ---Yup, a lot of innocence is lost as soon as one moves out on their own. Something he will eventually learn. But let him live in his perfect little world for a bit longer. It's more funny when they get their wake up call.
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Again you show your conceited arrogance referring to your oh so experienced life. I thought just two seconds ago you said that you had a lot to learn, too? I am fully aware of how the world operates. I am fully aware of problems in the world. I am not as sheltered as you think.
Wedge:
--- Quote ---I'm not saying that all morals are from religion, and I thought I made that clear in a previous post. I am saying that our society is infested with religious morals, which we do not need and are harmful to society.
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I see no other possible way to interpret
--- Quote ---Morals are just ethical codes with religious undertones. They are horrible for society. forget off, Christbag
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and
--- Quote ---Morals are bullstuff from religion. Ethics is the proper way to behave in society.
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Although I guess when somebody called you out on that and you revised it to
--- Quote ---What I mean is that the morals we are told to follow in our culture stem from religion, and therefore should be ignored. We should have a new code of conduct totally separate from religion, which will be the ethics of an ideal society.
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which clears it up a little bit.
--- Quote from: Inv3rted on October 07, 2009, 06:43:09 PM ---You're both idiots for assuming that ethical behavior cannot exist without religion. It's funny how you only mentioned the commandments that actually have a purpose. I'd rather my children never follow this list of handicapation:
quote
I think we could all do without that. This list is in fact harmful because it equates the pointless rules above with murder, rape, adultery, and theft.
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I'm still at a loss as to how having no other gods before the one true god, refusing to worship idols, not using your god's name in vain and keeping the sabbath holy hurts society. These rules only affect Christians. Christians don't mind them, and nobody else cares. Christians might try and convince you their religion is the one true one, but they sure don't try and drag you into church with them on Sunday or set your house on fire because you said "OH MY GOD." They hurt nobody. Maybe having them occasionally knock on your door and try and sell you a bible is a inconvenience to you, but it's a minor one at worst. If you want to argue that they are hurting themselves by not believing in science and that the lost productivity from people not working on Sundays is probably worth billions, fine, but seriously, I think you're going to have a hard time justifying that these rules alone do something bad to society.
You say it's because they are treated as equal. Perhaps all are equal before God (but who's to say, you're not God) but you're going to have trouble finding a Christian who is going to be more concerned about people using Jesus Christ as an exclamation than people getting raped.
Also if you read the rest of the chapter you would find that there are different degrees of each sin, and the punishments are clearly not equal. But I know reading mystic books is a challenge for you. It was hard enough for you to google "LIST OF TEN COMMANDMENTS."
--- Quote ---There is no 'belief' of mysticism here. Religion is mystic by default. Indeed, the point you are making here is exactly why I am saying religion is not required for morality. Religious morality is harmful to society.
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I had a lot of trouble responding to what you said here because I could not understand it in the context of what you were quoting.
It sounds like you're reasserting your belief that religion is not real. Fine. I don't care. That's not what I'm talking about.
--- Quote ---The Ten Commandments have no real use, considering they have basic ethical doctrines mixed in with arrogant policies to give power to controllers. Morality, as I said a while back, is essentially what is good and bad for the species as a whole. Things that damage society are immoral because our species requires society. Things that directly harm other members of the species are immoral because that's quite obviously direct harm to the species.
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The Ten Commandments do have a use. They codify God's word obviously. Why don't you ask a Christian what their use is?
--- Quote ---No, what I am saying is that people take doctrines directly out of religious texts and attempt to make them apply to society. This is fundamentally wrong. Other moral arguments in current society arise from ignorance directly (STEM CELL RESEARCH KILLS BABIES), but are overwhelmingly agreed with by the conservative Christians, whose fundamental beliefs revolve around ignoring the scientific process. There could not be anything worse for society than that.
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Hey finally. "Some Christians interpret the bible in a way that compels them to make bad public policy." Go on.
How Christian morality is killing America is way too vague to argue compellingly in 4 forum posts (or even 20). You could get a book deal for that, although judging from your previous posts your editor would probably run out of red ink. What about Muslim morality? What about Hindu morality? Is there a reason you focus on Christians solely? Do you even know anything about Islam? What about other religions? If not, how can you make a claim about all religion based on Christianity? If so, why haven't you mentioned them? What if I could cite an example of a good thing morality did for every bad thing you say it does? For example (and this is wild speculation with no figures or sources but you shouldn't have any problem with that) suppose tidings given by Christians had enough value that they saved more lives than stem cell research did? Does this make up for negative effects of their opposition? Why not?
Justin K.:
--- Quote from: Inv3rted on October 03, 2009, 11:17:45 AM ---Unsubscribe to Fox plz.
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Unsubscribe to NBC plz.
Nightzet467:
--- Quote from: Justin K. on October 07, 2009, 09:27:37 PM ---Unsubscribe to NBC plz.
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FAUX* fixed it for ya' ;)