Off Topic > Off Topic
Kids and politics
Inv3rted:
--- Quote from: Snackbar on October 08, 2009, 08:06:16 PM ---Excellent riposte! You have won me over with that brilliant response! Your argument skills are truly the nonpareil!
My point still stands. Since the 4th century BCE, the Western and Middle Eastern world has known that the Earth is a sphere. As the three major religions of the world are from these areas, they never thought the world was flat.
Two things wrong with this quote. First, you're about to quote an argument from Richard Dawkins on religion. As he has never actually read the Bible, he's about as qualified to talk about Christianity as he is qualified to discuss quantum physics; e.g., not at all. Secondly, you claim his proof to be irrefutable. Nothing is irrefutable. Absolutely nothing. Even mathematical axioms have been refuted.
Oh yeah, because not reading the entire Bible means you can't call out Christianity on its blatant bullstuff. You only need to read a few passages to see what utter crap this piece of literature is. I did not say it was irrefutable proof that God does not exist. I said it was irrefutable proof of his extreme improbability. Big difference. And he is more qualified to discuss quantum physics than you are to discuss politics. He is fully aware of the scientific method as well as the creeds of basic logic, and these you seem to lack. Also, instead of arguing with his proof, you simply brush it off and claim inaccuracy. No logic, just denial. Good job, you've proven yourself a perfect example of what most religious believers do: ignore anything that makes them question anything. And to add one final damning rebuttal of your utterly useless string of words: Richard Dawkins did read the bible.
I suppose you know absolutely nothing about historians, do you? Don't even try to say otherwise, because this sentence definitively proves you don't. Since it seems like you're completely unaware of the fact that the Bible is widely used by historians for its historical value, and the Old Testament is considered to be, for the most part, historically accurate.
LOL. LOOOL. LOOOOOOOOOOOL.
What is historically accurate about the bible? The creation story? The Jesus story? The flood? None of these are true. Who considers the Old Testament to be true for the most part? Evangelical nuts who have no education or any actual scientist? Get the forget out of the 17th century. What historians get out of the Bible are not direct facts, but instead ideas about the culture of the time period they are written. In this sense it does have historical value and my previous statement was misguided. But that does not mean any events in it are true. Simple as that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_history#Historical_accuracy This shows what little actual historical facts can be taken from the Bible.
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--- Quote from: Rughugger on October 08, 2009, 07:34:54 PM ---People loose their faith in some way or are never taught about it in the first place because of parents who lost their faith. That's how a belief spreads just like religions. No Atheism isn't a religion, but it is a belief. But Inv3rted keeps avoiding his reasons for not believing, so I have no idea on how to judge his arguments. But I assume from the fact that he has to insult everyone who has a counter argument that he is someone who has a grudge, or someone who lost their faith or was taught not to have one by parents who did.
My reasons for not believing are logic and free thinking rationalism. I was brought up as a theist, a Zoroastrian (of my own choosing; it was my mother's religion but I didn't have to follow it). You speak of losing faith like a bad thing, like it will ruin you and spin your life into an abyss. If you feel insulted because I use profanity and direct insults at you as well as your beliefs, please consider that I am passionate about this subject. This passion has actually gotten me out of a depression that's lasted about two years now, so I think you can forget off with your "I was so miserable until I found my faith again" religious nonsense. Furthermore, you bring in my parents into this argument, showing a great deal of maturity on your point. Such a great deal that you believe that parents can not have a secular attitude towards anything, considering one is an atheist and the other is a theist. Both of them taught me the most important thing: a secular upbringing that lets a child choose things on their own will ultimately lead them to a ration and free thinking outlook on the world.
PS forget off and pray some more
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Wedge:
--- Quote from: Inv3rted on October 08, 2009, 09:58:47 AM ---You invalidated your whole argument in one paragraph.
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What a stunningly arrogant statement.
--- Quote from: Inv3rted on October 08, 2009, 09:58:47 AM ---When your ideal of perfection is a jealous hypocrite, you can safely say that their morality is skewed.
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Forgive me, my use of the word hypocrite was entirely incorrect. "I am a jealous God" literally reads as "I am the one true god and worshiping any other God will make me angry." What did you read it as? God looks lustfully at his neighbor's wife? Explain how this makes God a hypocrite or makes Christian's since of morality skewed.
--- Quote from: Inv3rted on October 08, 2009, 09:58:47 AM ---Whether or not the majority of Christians believe the first four Ten Commandments are as important as the rest (considering the Bible says so), they all believe that God is the ultimate perfection.
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Sure. Christians believe their God is flawless. How is the bad? How does it lead to religious morality destroying the world?
--- Quote from: Inv3rted on October 08, 2009, 09:58:47 AM ---Even if the God of the Bible existed, it would he harmful to worship him in a strictly moral sense (might as well considering he'll kill your family while you watch and then torture them for eternity if you don't).
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You have failed to establish how exactly this is harmful.
Inv3rted:
--- Quote from: Wedge on October 08, 2009, 09:03:31 PM ---What a stunningly arrogant statement.
That's what happens when you forget over your whole post with a paragraph.
Forgive me, my use of the word hypocrite was entirely incorrect. "I am a jealous God" literally reads as "I am the one true god and worshiping any other God will make me angry." What did you read it as? God looks lustfully at his neighbor's wife?
Humility isn't a Christian virtue or anything...you know...just sayin'.
Sure. Christians believe their God is flawless. How is the bad? How does it lead to religious morality destroying the world?
You have failed to establish how exactly this is harmful.
You must be pretty dense to not see it yet. I said he is more than flawless. He is the believer's standard of perfection. Do not deny this; it is at the core of half the theistic defenses. He is a hypocrite, he is a murderer, he is jealous, and he is the standard of perfection for so many people. You still don't see how there is a negative aspect here?
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Snackbar:
Good job selectively reading Wikipedia articles. Try reading the last paragraph of the section you just mentioned.
By the way, Richard Dawkins has never seriously studies or read the Bible. "Would you need to read learned volumes on Leprechology before disbelieving in leprechauns?" Since Richard Dawkins wrote that, I think that you don't know an awful lot about him. Furthermore, Dawkins actually values the Bible as a piece of literature, which I think you may find hard to believe.
Rughugger:
--- Quote from: Inv3rted on October 08, 2009, 08:57:56 PM ---My reasons for not believing are logic and free thinking rationalism. I was brought up as a theist, a Zoroastrian (of my own choosing; it was my mother's religion but I didn't have to follow it). You speak of losing faith like a bad thing, like it will ruin you and spin your life into an abyss. If you feel insulted because I use profanity and direct insults at you as well as your beliefs, please consider that I am passionate about this subject. This passion has actually gotten me out of a depression that's lasted about two years now, so I think you can forget off with your "I was so miserable until I found my faith again" religious nonsense. Furthermore, you bring in my parents into this argument, showing a great deal of maturity on your point. Such a great deal that you believe that parents can not have a secular attitude towards anything, considering one is an atheist and the other is a theist. Both of them taught me the most important thing: a secular upbringing that lets a child choose things on their own will ultimately lead them to a ration and free thinking outlook on the world.
PS forget off and pray some more
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Having passion for something and just being a richard are two different things. You obviously can't tell the difference. And since you see fit to constantly throw a jab at me only shows me you are losing an argument and have to try and redirect my attention to your lack of productive discussions.
I bring your parents into the argument because they are responsible for teaching you throughout your young life. The fact that they obviously haven't taught you respect for other people and their beliefs is not the main goal here, but I'm sure they have their reasons for allowing you to be your fowl-mouthed self.
And you speak of religion as the basis for all civilization going to stuff. Same argument, different subject matter. Welcome to hypocrisy. So you can also "forget off with your 'I wasn't happy til I dumped religion.' bullstuff." Not so good when it turns right back onto you, is it?
PS, Jesus still loves you even if you don't believe in him. Have a nice day. :)