Author Topic: Methinks i cracked the code of Christianity  (Read 24767 times)

You should probably ask a molecular biologist about whether evolution is about how life began or about how life diversified. It's a better idea than asking Kent Hovind.

Carbon dating only works until 60,000 years into the past.

And you should probably read these three wikipedia articles before you say something doesn't have evidence:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/the_big_bang

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/evolution

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Earth

If giving me three wikipedia articles is your best argument, you're no better than the other people you keep putting down. I understand the Big Bang Theory. That doesn't mean I agree with it. The theory of evolution came first (of the three articles/topics you mentioned). It became the well accepted theory in science and still is. I can argue all day about the problem with modern science, but that's not really what this is about. The problem is these theories were designed around evolution, which itself is a theory not a fact.

Your clarification of carbon dating doesn't really change anything. You still didn't show me any PROOF that the earth is as old as you believe it is. All you did was link me to two theories and the hypothesized timeline they fit into.

The problem is that you obviously don't understand the big bang theory nor evolution. Modern science is just science. The scientific method hasn't changed for more than 2000 years.

What you want when you say "proof" is not just heaps of evidence but something that is physically impossible in the universe.

Everything from the cosmic background radiation to the expansion rate of the Universe with the Hubble constant show that it was most likely once a singularity. Is it possible that it wasn't? Yes. Is it likely with the currently evidence? Extremely not so.

When the Universe was created it had no solid proporties. Objects would fall through one another. The Universe evolved through different stages while cooling down, in the making and the cooling billions of years ago the laws of physics did not yet exist untill it's final stage. The Universe can still be making and mutating at this very moment.

Five million times zero is still zero, so no, it's not possible.

Let's think about this for more than five seconds, shall we?

A change versus no change. Is a change more than no change? Yes. Therefore, if no change is decided as the numerical value "0," then a change has to be a numeric value greater than 0. 5million times something more than 0 is not zero, but rather, something even more than zero.

If you would rather have a metaphor for evolution, fine.

Lets take small picture of a circle on MSpaint. You send the picture to 1 person, and he adds a dot. He sends it to someone else, and that person adds a square. Then that person sends it to someone else, who adds a line. Eventually, you get the picture back. All the changes to the picture would make it something that is not a circle. Now, do not take this as a perfect metaphor. Generally evolution will not create a worse species (aside from maybe humans devolving due to medical advances) due to the fact that those with defects generally die off. But, nevertheless it is an adequate example that can be used to explain how small changes can add up to large changes (since this concept was clearly too complex for you to comprehend).

Many small changes can add up to bigger changes. The only conceivable way evolution would not work the way they say it works is if changes in DNA cannot be hereditary.

In the beginning all four of the forces (gravity, electromagnetism, strong + weak nuclear forces) were unified into the superforce. As it cooled, they separated. But this happened very soon after the big bang.

Also, I suggest you all watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho7GaI2rCwI

I could have sworn a wizard did it.

We really don't know enough about the universe to have a chance at comprehending it in its entirety.
We know what its doing now, and what did that, but not what happened before.

physics did not yet exist untill it's final stage.
Who told you that? Were you there?

-snip-
But collection of atoms is not enough to generate life. You'd need to have some pretty fancy probabilities in there to make it turn into a bacteria. Its not impossible, just enormously improbable. Infinite time alone doesn't do anything. Your poor atoms don't get any smarter because they've sat there. They move around a bit and interact, perhaps form and break down from elements, but ultimately life isn't made.

But collection of atoms is not enough to generate life. You'd need to have some pretty fancy probabilities in there to make it turn into a bacteria. Its not impossible, just enormously improbable. Infinite time alone doesn't do anything. Your poor atoms don't get any smarter because they've sat there. They move around a bit and interact, perhaps form and break down from elements, but ultimately life isn't made.

No no no. I'm not saying anything about how life was created. I'm saying that a large amount of small changes can create one or more big changes, which he denies. That is the basis of evolution.

EDIT: Also if you admit is possible, then why don't you believe it? There were an unimaginably large amount of chances for the universe to get it right. -ignorance snip-
« Last Edit: February 19, 2010, 02:49:13 PM by Mateo »


But collection of atoms is not enough to generate life. You'd need to have some pretty fancy probabilities in there to make it turn into a bacteria. Its not impossible, just enormously improbable. Infinite time alone doesn't do anything. Your poor atoms don't get any smarter because they've sat there. They move around a bit and interact, perhaps form and break down from elements, but ultimately life isn't made.

Improbability is removed by the existence of long periods of time. The more time you have, the more probable something is.

Do you ever pause and think that these people had spent their lives learning about the universe via observation and came to these conclusions on their own?

Yes, because anyone can just go back millions of years and actually observe and test those things which evolution professes to be true.  This is idiotic.  Evolution has never been observed.  It is a wild guess, made because the humanist needs some explanation of life excluding God in order to make himself sleep well at night.

Do you ever notice that you fit the description of an indoctrinated apologetic?

Yes, because I've looked at both sides of the issue in detail, have read reports and books by both sides, studied the issue for myself, asked questions to people on both sides, weighing each answer, etc etc etc.

You just keep bringing out these already-disproven assumptions about anyone who disagrees with you in an attempt to "ad-hominem" your way out of actually having a logical argument.

You won't bother refuting because you can't.

I won't bother refuting because I already have, but you conveniently ignore that in your quest to become the most unreasonable and idiotic person ever to support evolution.  You are acting like a religious fanatic.  Perhaps, because you are a religious fanatic, where Darwin is God, the geologic column is your Bible, everything is relative and life has no meaning.  Why you feel like you must force this horrid worldview upon everyone you meet is unfathomable to me.

You set up a strawman and refute that, and then panic when your strawman is exposed.

Excellent description of yourself, bravo.

You won't give up the claim that evolution requires spontaneous creation of life because it goes against the strawman argument you've held so dear for so long.

So, life somehow becomes half-of-a-life, and then maybe a third-of-a-life until finally becoming life?  Are you kidding me?  Your view has rocks, soup, and then bacteria.  It's not rocks, soup, and then half-of-life.  Non-life to life is spontaneous.  Your view is just desperate to find some sort of beginning of life without God.  Pathetic.

Let's think about this for more than five seconds, shall we?

A change versus no change. Is a change more than no change? Yes. Therefore, if no change is decided as the numerical value "0," then a change has to be a numeric value greater than 0. 5million times something more than 0 is not zero, but rather, something even more than zero.

If you would rather have a metaphor for evolution, fine.

Lets take small picture of a circle on MSpaint. You send the picture to 1 person, and he adds a dot. He sends it to someone else, and that person adds a square. Then that person sends it to someone else, who adds a line. Eventually, you get the picture back. All the changes to the picture would make it something that is not a circle. Now, do not take this as a perfect metaphor. Generally evolution will not create a worse species (aside from maybe humans devolving due to medical advances) due to the fact that those with defects generally die off. But, nevertheless it is an adequate example that can be used to explain how small changes can add up to large changes (since this concept was clearly too complex for you to comprehend).

Many small changes can add up to bigger changes. The only conceivable way evolution would not work the way they say it works is if changes in DNA cannot be hereditary.

Did you even read what I said?

"Natural selection selects genes, it doesn't create them".

Your metaphor is totally invalid, because natural selection is taking from a pool of genes in the parent, giving each of them to each child, and the child with the most profitably selected genes survived.  No one was adding genes.

Your metaphor SHOULD be this:

You make a picture with a bunch of dots in it.  You send it around, with your instructions to remove up to 10 dots and then send it around again.  At certain points (10 pictures created, 100, 1,000), you take all of the pictures, and the ones that judges say are ugly are destroyed and not allowed to be sent out again.

Now imagine each species at the beginning as the original pictures, and you've got it.  Natural selection does not create genes.

"Natural selection selects genes, it doesn't create them".

This is correct. Nature decides which genes are better due to the fact that those without "good" genes will die. Though, small mutations are what make some creatures better at survival than others.

No no no. I'm not saying anything about how life was created. I'm saying that a large amount of small changes can create one or more big changes, which he denies. That is the basis of evolution.
Well okay then. I'm not touching evolution. That's Duck's job. :D

Improbability is removed by the existence of long periods of time. The more time you have, the more probable something is.
I'm pretty sure that matter didn't materialize into a dinosaur because every particle comprising its being, namely, billions and billions, were travelling in the correct vectors to facilitate such an event, regardless of what probability claims.
It is so infinitely unlikely that time immemorial would not facilitate such a thing. Probability was a human invention.

This isn't 'if you roll a bunch of marbles around it will eventually resemble something', you are dealing with mind-bogglingly large numbers of microscopic particles. To even humor that such a thing is possible is simply paying tribute to Douglas Adams' style physics. Bowls of petunias and whales don't, and probably never will appear in an instant.
The moment we find a whale carcass in space, I will eat my hat.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2010, 02:57:36 PM by SupremeCommander »

I GOT BETTER CELLS THAN YOU DO.