Healthcare Bill passed House tonight

[Inv3rted]

Alright, so how can you legally drop out of your insurance?

There's got to be some way to do it.

If you're older than 26 iirc you can't have no insurance or else you have to pay a fine.

So...yeah. Your point is invalid.

Also Reagan hardly ended the cold war. The USSR was collapsing by itself.

What he did do was some serious financial deregulation, leading to the current recession pretty directly.

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[Sirrus]

If you're older than 26 iirc you can't have no insurance or else you have to pay a fine.

So...yeah. Your point is invalid.

You're correct. A $695 yearly fine. That's a hell of a lot cheaper than paying for health insurance.

[Inv3rted]

The point is it won't be cheaper. This bill controls premiums.

[Sirrus]

The point is it won't be cheaper. This bill controls premiums.

If premiums are low and insurance companies can't lower benefits, than how do they stay in business?

[Bisjac]

insurance companies will have to compete somehow. it will likely be prices.

they certainly cant convince all Americans that government controlled health care is worse then the crap they been putting up with for years.

[Sirrus]

insurance companies will have to compete somehow. it will likely be prices

Prices of what?

[Inv3rted]

Look at their current profit margins. They make way more money than they need.

Also, I don't see how dropping people with a pre-existing condition can be justified in any way whatsoever. 50,000 people in America die a year because of lack of health insurance.

And even if you somehow managed to have no health insurance and were paying the fine for years, when you got sick you can't just get health insurance on the spot. It's not a pre-existing condition, so there is no reason for a company to insure you. In that situation it's your fault.

Prices of what?

Health insurance companies only charge one thing: premiums.

[Bisjac]

of new shoes, wtf do you think

[Inv3rted]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/22/education/22pell.html

At the very loving least you can't complain about this.

[Sirrus]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/22/education/22pell.html

At the very loving least you can't complain about this.

Nope, not complaining about that.

But look at it like this. I hate to bring up anything related to the extremist "socialist agenda" views, but if the government does anything to edge large portions of our economy away from the private sector, then we're closer to socialism and farther from capitalism, if even by a little bit.

[Swholli]

Believe me when I say I love capitalism a hell of a lot, but I love the stability of my country a hell of a lot more.

If it takes the government taking control of a few things so that we don't go into an economic downturn, or lose our ability to gain entrance to a hospital, so be it.

Plus, thanks to checks and balances, nothing in the system has to be permanent, we can go back to the old way as need be, or if this way works, all the power to it.

Really, again, I bring up FDR, but he's a prime example of what's happening here, and how it can work and how it might not. As long as Obama learns from FDR and his triumphs as well as mistakes, we should pull out of this ok.

[Bisjac]

and whats wrong with socialism?

Americans were raised from day-1 to fear anything non capitalism.
most Americans dont even know what communism even is, but the word alone is the devil for some reason.
nor socialism and how great it is.

[Swholli]

and whats wrong with socialism?

Americans were raised from day-1 to fear anything non capitalism.
most Americans dont even know what communism even is, but the word alone is the devil for some reason.
nor socialism and how great it is.

Well, communism is somewhere I really do not want to go, ever.

It sounds like a great idea on paper, but then it's like. No. Just no.

Good idea, bad execution.

[Bisjac]

people bitch about how evil and manipulative the government and the CORPORATIONS that run it is...

then they still go on to hate socialism. im starting to think no one knows what that even means. people cant have it both way.

[Sirrus]

and whats wrong with socialism?

Americans were raised from day-1 to fear anything non capitalism.
most Americans dont even know what communism even is, but the word alone is the devil for some reason.
nor socialism and how great it is.

Socialism can't work because we are human. Any time a government holds the strings of an entire society's economic system there's bound to be some form of corruption. It's impossible to have a 100% benevolent socialist government.

Pretty much what Shwolli said.

Also, in response to what Bisjac said as I was posting, there is no perfect form of government. There will always be some way that someone finds to forget it up somewhere along the line. However, with socialism and an economy controlled by the government, you know what else the government controls? The military. Taxes. Our healthcare. Our education. The private sector cannot control everything that the government controls at once. It's not a perfect system, but it's better than socialism.