Author Topic: Planning a governmental system that would work... ever tried it?  (Read 3210 times)

You bring up good points.
However, that isn't very definite, and the problem with the religious part is that it's extremely hard to convince an entire country to be one religion, not to mention pretty damn cruel. Also, remember that there are radicals for every religion, no matter how peaceful.
I personally shouldn't have to much of a say in this kind of matter, as I am not religious at all. I don't believe in anything, I just go on the assumption that everything proven by science is true, though sometimes I let go of that for a while as well.
Fear isn't a good motivator, really. It is for nimrods, but they're them. The thing about using fear is that it isn't saying that things that you do are morally wrong, it's saying that it's fine if you get away with it, just that if you get caught, you get punished.
Also, normal people often have completely separate views, even in the same country. The US Civil War is a prime example; the South thought that slavery was completely fine, and the North didn't. There were also other points of contention, but that was the highlight. Even today, there is resentment and distrust.
Idiocy is passed down and often magnified. Things that were once valid are no longer.

However, still, good points, good argument.

in theory Communism looks like it would work amazingly, but when put into practice it's appauling. Just saying.


The best system is to have a King/Queen to make the final decision on every law, and the public would vote for people to be in charge of certain areas of society and running a country for example;
Religion
Housing
Development
Military
Bussiness
Ect.
Then they decide what to do but must take laws + ideas to the king for approval if the king dissagrees he can say no, but must first debate with the people the public voted in charge so they can attempt to convince him.


I was actually in the middle of editing my post to address a few flaws in your government when you posted, so I will just use this reply to post it instead of an edit.



So, my current idea is based off of the U.S. government for the most part, but that's the perspective from which I entered the thought process. It's a little vague, but I'm a little vague. The government's main premise would be to disallow campaigning, to a certain extent. Neutral deciders would be found, though they would be eliminated in the case of bias, by whom I have no idea. The candidates would pay an entrance fee of maybe 50-75 dollars, and would be eliminated by personality flaws, IQ, or anything really. Then, for maybe the last ten candidates, people would be given required reading (Essays from the deciders) and then allowed to vote. If you didn't do the reading, you wouldn't be allowed to vote. The votes would be tallied, and the best candidate would be elected. Impeachment would be completely fine, to be done at any time. The judicial branch would remain untouched; I'm fine with all that. The military would have a similarly elected officer, and nobody would be able to skip in any way serving at the very lowest rank to begin. I think I would want there to be some sort of "Council of Morality" that could overturn any decisions, but not make any of their own.

While you do have a good idea, you have a couple major flaws that'll prevent it from working (I bolded them).

The first flaw is the idea of natural deciders. It's impossible to get someone completely unbiased (which I saw that you recognize). Look at the US's current court system. While it does work, it is in no way perfect. Watch the movie 12 Angry Men to get a perfect idea of what I mean.

Second flaw is my biggest issue with your plan. It breaks the Voting Rights Act of 1965. We'd repeat that section of history all over again. If we still went ahead with that situation, we'd eventually have leaders who would "improve" (read: shrink) the voting pool to get "better" candidates elected. As time goes on, fewer and fewer people have a say in government, meaning less people have more power. Eventually, an oligarchy will form and we'll eventually end up as a dictatorship, putting us right back at the start. No matter how frustrated you are with dumb people, you cannot eliminate them from the voting process.

Finally, the last flaw I see is the idea of a Council of Morality. Morality is technically relative, so it's flawed from the start. Minus that fact, the idea of having a council with that much power is terrifying to me. Noone is perfect and everyone can be corrupted, so all it would take is a few people with lots of influence to control the decision making process.

Other than those three things, I think it's a pretty good system and I completely agree on the idea that military officers should have to serve before they can lead.



You bring up good points.
However, that isn't very definite, and the problem with the religious part is that it's extremely hard to convince an entire country to be one religion, not to mention pretty damn cruel. Also, remember that there are radicals for every religion, no matter how peaceful.
I personally shouldn't have to much of a say in this kind of matter, as I am not religious at all. I don't believe in anything, I just go on the assumption that everything proven by science is true, though sometimes I let go of that for a while as well.
Fear isn't a good motivator, really. It is for nimrods, but they're them. The thing about using fear is that it isn't saying that things that you do are morally wrong, it's saying that it's fine if you get away with it, just that if you get caught, you get punished.
Also, normal people often have completely separate views, even in the same country. The US Civil War is a prime example; the South thought that slavery was completely fine, and the North didn't. There were also other points of contention, but that was the highlight. Even today, there is resentment and distrust.
Idiocy is passed down and often magnified. Things that were once valid are no longer.

However, still, good points, good argument.

Not to invalidate your last post as there are some well thought out points in there, but I think you slightly misunderstood the point of my post. It wasn't the proposal of a new system, I was simply stating the requirements of a "perfect" system and then presenting why it's unreachable. I mentioned at the beginning of the post that it was purely speculative, perhaps I should have used the word hypothetical. I am assuming you are comparing what I'm saying to the current state of the US. The US government, where it is right now, would have a hard time reaching a state of complete control, though it's not entirely out of the question. Sensationalism can enable us to get there. Look at the bronies. Shortly after the show gained it's massive following, many bronies began to accept a code of "love and tolerance", almost as if it were a religion. While you don't see it much now that the show is nearing the end of it's second season, the amount of people that changed their lifestyle (albeit only for a few weeks) is astonishing. Something like that could happen on a much larger scale. And something like that doesn't have to last for a long time, just long enough to get laws in place that will get that system started.

I was originally going to go over the topics in your post one by one, but I'm having a hard time motivating myself to grab evidence for each example. I'll simply tell you basic claims, then you can ask me for specific evidence if you'd like.

It's not hard to convince an entire country to be one "religion".
Quote from: Dictionary.com
Religion - a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects
North Korea is a prime example. While technically Atheist, they worshiped Kim Jong Il. Science is becoming America's religion, something you are proving.

Pertaining to my last point, it's not "cruel" for a nation to follow one religion. It's like the saying, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink." Same concept applies here. The cruel thing is the brainwashing and executions it takes to get to that point, but the history books are written by the victors. We still think of it as cruel because many didn't choose to follow it, but do they really need a choice? Individual freedom is a very American concept, many people think that America is stupid for allowing it.

Addressing radicals, how often do you see radicals attack their own? Never (unless they're crazy). Radicals would not be an issue for perfect system because everyone would be brainwashed the exact same way. The reasons radicals exists is because there is speculation. Get rid of speculation and opinions won't differ.

Fear isn't a good motivator, really. It is for nimrods, but they're them. The thing about using fear is that it isn't saying that things that you do are morally wrong, it's saying that it's fine if you get away with it, just that if you get caught, you get punished.

Fear is one of the greatest motivators, next to love and anger. Have you ever heard the quote, "It's better to be feared than loved?" There is a lot of truth in that. Love is probably the most secure form of motivation because the person wants to do it (I've seen people travel thousands of miles to help those that they love), but it is sometimes overpowered by anger or fear. Anger is great for fast action (look at any of the recent protests in the past few months, most were fueled by anger), but anger generally doesn't last very long. Fear is relativity easy to achieve and can have a long-lasting effect. If there were reports of someone killing anyone who opened a refrigerator door with their left hand, would you only use your right hand until that person was caught and your fear was removed? I would because I fear for my life.

As far as the normal people comment, the reason people have different views is either because there is room for speculation or they're crazy. Things pertaining to morality (like slavery) have room for speculation. Nobody will debate you on the need to breathe unless they are crazy. In a "perfect" system, you would remove all speculation, and thereby, almost all arguments will cease to exist. Those that argue are deemed "crazy" and are executed.


If you'd like me to turn my previous post into a legitimate system with laws and regulation, as well as a history to better help you understand, I'd be willing to write it all down, though I'd rather not.

are you dead
no
that means at least one government has worked

Did I kill this topic with a wall?

I've planned several governmental systems in case of an apocalypse. They all could function well, I think, with zero population growth and corruption would be fairly minimum as long as people were kept mostly pleased, educated, and involved in their government. Then again, this could be said for any system. :o

Did I kill this topic with a wall?
christ why would you type all of that out

Fear may be a good motivator, but I wouldn't want to live in a world where I feared for my life. If I wanted that I would go into the woods and live like a hermit and fend off bears and cougers'n stuff. (Sorry if I missed the point of your post, I just skimmed it)

I guess I was trying to design a system where everyone could get along, with little to no corruption/taking advantage of other people. now that I think of it like that, I don't know why I even thought it would be possible.

I had an idea. You are assigned a job from birth, a job does not determine your social status. Currency does not exist, you are able to buy anything and own anything. Because of this we do not need to buy crap from other countries, we can just make it ourselves. The only objects that would cost credits/currency are lethal weapons and military equipment(vehicles, uniforms, etc.) You are given y(variable) x 3 credits at age 21, a weapon costs y(variable) credits.
To drive companies to achieve and discover. When you discover  something new, or create something revolutionary you are given vip credits which you can use to buy vip luxury items like sports cars, mansions, etc.

Since you are assigned a job from birth you are sent to a school that specializes in the job or you got a school with a class for that job, if your job is low-end you can begin your job at age 13. Jobs that require skill (Doctors) will require a longer time to become professional at. This kind of system will increase maturity level also, we won't have crap like Self Deletes, there will be no robbers, there will be no hate driven murders, the USA would be a utopia.

BUT, there is one flaw. How do we exchange items with other countries? Oh wait never mind, we have military credits. So there is one more flaw, some are bound to not like their job. But if their job is forced on them at birth, they accept it immediately, there is no rejection. So what could the problem be, I'm trying to find problems with it.

In order to socialize with people there would be places like "hubs" where kids/adults can go to interact. A child must attend one of these pubs when they reach 6 years old to purge them of unproductive personalities(timidness, shyness, etc.) Of course there would be regular/basic education, we don't want the human race to become stupid. So along with regular classes there will be specialized classes for your life job.

Imagine the USA being like this. Everyone walking around with luxury items... No one is on the streets, everyone can socialize since they were taught how to at birth. Everything is perfect...

Oh and you can change your job with VIP credits.

It may not work though since this was thought up by a 14 year old though, LOL.

Simpul govurnmunt sustem.
Simpul economic sustem
« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 06:08:41 PM by Woolys »

Wow, your world is dark and void of freedom. Here's my perfect world:

At age 1-4 education is banned to prevent smart people from clogging up their parent's houses.
Age -- Grade
5-6 Kindergarten, taught core basics
6-7 1st Grade, expanded concepts and learning more complex word sentences
7-8 2nd Grade, Introduction to super basic algebra and X and / and evilution
8-9 3rd Grade, Year of more advanced concepts etc
9-10 4th Grade, ^
10-11 5th Grade, ^
11-12 6th Grade, Review of those and point where you master basic math
12-13 7th Grade, More concept
13-14 8th Grade, 9th grade stuff
14-15 9th Grade, 10th grade stuff
15-16 10th Grade, 11/12th grade stuff slimmed down
16-17-18 -- You don't have to continue but you can and it's basically college prep

School would be 2x harder than it is now but teachers would be required to smoke pot so they're interesting
100% Graduation Rate because It'd be national socialist like and japanese

With a High School Diploma you'd start out making $30k and can have a future
With 1-2 Year Diploma $40k and brighter
With 4 Year $50k
With Master's / Doctorate $80k yay

College would be free for americans yay

As an adult you get 30 Free days! Taxes are adjusted based on your income and you get free pizza every end of the month
Poor people get free jobs w/o work
Rich people get to get high off of OG K

Marijuana is legal and so is acid and shrooms and dmt
High School would be about learning how to get high

You get a free robot girlfriend :D

« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 06:18:04 PM by FadedGlory »

Wow, your world is dark and void of freedom.
Me? You go to work for 3 hours plumping toilets and you come home to your house made of solid gold and you get to watch TV in ultra hd and when your bored you get to play on your high end gaming machine, if you are bored with that you can do anything you want, sky dive, fly, travel, etc.

Nothing has changed besides assigned jobs, and no one would care since it's given at birth, just like religion.

If I had a choice between choosing to be an artist and possibly living in a shack but doing what I love doing.

But if I didn't have a choice to choose my job but besides that I can do ANYTHING...

I would choose the second one, just my opinion.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 06:14:10 PM by Woolys »

Currency does not exist, you are able to buy anything and own anything. Because of this we do not need to buy crap from other countries, we can just make it ourselves.
How do you propose we obtain resources to create these things? Or keep up with the demands?

How do you propose we obtain resources to create these things? Or keep up with the demands?

If you read the whole thing you would know :/

I also said how to handle the demands.

I'm not going to write out the resources and stuff.

The demands, you are only able to obtain average quality items unless you discover something new or revolutionary or you have become one the top at your job. Then you are given VIP credits which you can buy vip luxury items(mansions, sports cars, diamonds, gold, etc.)
It's the same thing with our economy now, you can't buy anything luxurious unless you discover something great or you are great at something. In this type of economy(mine) you have to do the same thing, it's just defined in text.


Your world is scary and is full of bullies :C
« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 06:36:51 PM by Woolys »

christ why would you type all of that out

I'm bored. ;)

Fear may be a good motivator, but I wouldn't want to live in a world where I feared for my life. If I wanted that I would go into the woods and live like a hermit and fend off bears and cougers'n stuff. (Sorry if I missed the point of your post, I just skimmed it)

I guess I was trying to design a system where everyone could get along, with little to no corruption/taking advantage of other people. now that I think of it like that, I don't know why I even thought it would be possible.

You skimmed kinda heavy, lol. It would roughly be the same amount of fear a child feels with it's parents. Papa Government and Mama Religion. Basically, it's just a fear that if you break laws, then you'll go to jail. If you break religious rules, you'll go to Hell. You don't worry about jail if you don't plan on breaking laws, right?


I had an idea. You are assigned a job from birth, a job does not determine your social status. Currency does not exist, you are able to buy anything and own anything. Because of this we do not need to buy crap from other countries, we can just make it ourselves. The only objects that would cost credits/currency are lethal weapons and military equipment(vehicles, uniforms, etc.) You are given y(variable) x 3 credits at age 21, a weapon costs y(variable) credits.
To drive companies to achieve and discover. When you discover  something new, or create something revolutionary you are given vip credits which you can use to buy vip luxury items like sports cars, mansions, etc.

Since you are assigned a job from birth you are sent to a school that specializes in the job or you got a school with a class for that job, if your job is low-end you can begin your job at age 13. Jobs that require skill (Doctors) will require a longer time to become professional at. This kind of system will increase maturity level also, we won't have crap like Self Deletes, there will be no robbers, there will be no hate driven murders, the USA would be a utopia.

BUT, there is one flaw. How do we exchange items with other countries? Oh wait never mind, we have military credits. So there is one more flaw, some are bound to not like their job. But if their job is forced on them at birth, they accept it immediately, there is no rejection. So what could the problem be, I'm trying to find problems with it.

In order to socialize with people there would be places like "hubs" where kids/adults can go to interact. A child must attend one of these pubs when they reach 6 years old to purge them of unproductive personalities(timidness, shyness, etc.) Of course there would be regular/basic education, we don't want the human race to become stupid. So along with regular classes there will be specialized classes for your life job.

Imagine the USA being like this. Everyone walking around with luxury items... No one is on the streets, everyone can socialize since they were taught how to at birth. Everything is perfect...

Oh and you can change your job with VIP credits.

It may not work though since this was thought up by a 14 year old though, LOL.

Simpul govurnmunt sustem.
Simpul economic sustem

I'm sorry, but that idea is horribly flawed.

First issue I see is the job assignments. People have a particular set of skills, disabilities and fears they are born with. Would you want your pilot to be afraid of heights? Would you want a DJ to be dyslexic? How about having a surgeon who passes out at the sight of blood? Sure, some of them would get over it, but others might react poorly.

If you rid yourselves of currency and a bartering system doesn't exist, neither do stores. At that point, it's communism. Or, if a bartering system does exist (Everyone trades what they have for other things), people will create currency to make their lives easier (ie If 2 chickens are worth a goat, than each chicken is worth 1 shiny rock, and a goat is worth 2. Then we can just bring the small, shiny rocks instead of hauling around our livestock).

Restricting guns is a bad idea as well. If someone buys a gun, than shoots a person for their credits, they guy buy another gun and repeat. Eventually, they could own a small army, taking people's credits to fuel their army.

The hubs you are describing are known as schools.

Everyone would have jobs until there are too many people for the amount of jobs they have available.

Using credits to change jobs is a bad idea as well. If there are those that get forced into a job they don't like, but is necessary (like a doctor), they could use their credits to change to something easy, like a tailor. All of a sudden we have a lack of doctors because nobody wants to be a doctor. Then people die from disease.