Author Topic: Religion (uh-oh)  (Read 3381 times)

WARNING IN ADVANCE - this is entirely coincidental. Had my below story gone differently, I wouldn't have really cared to post this. However, given the circumstances, I would like to see the BL forum's opinion. General forum rules, of course, are in effect. Be polite, no bitch fights, play nice, and use quotes / proof.

Story/background:
So I went to late mass or whatever it's called when you go to church on Christmas eve. It wasn't really my choice, mostly my moms, but I humored her because she works hard all year long, so I figure the least I can do as the oldest of two sons (17 and 14) is just tough out 2 hours. Went mostly well until we started lighting candles. Seeing as how my little brother had been causing trouble ever since we got there (getting 3 candles for himself, breaking one of them, attempting to get MORE candles, not standing/sitting at the right time, being loud, etc) I ATTEMPTED to kindly ask "_______, please don't play with your candle when they come to light ours."

He, of course, decided that I was implying he was 'stupid' (which he voiced, loudly, outside the church at the very end, grumbling about "I'm not stupid... I don't need your help..." etc), and attempted to elbow me away. See, the reason I attempted to tell him this is because I tend to foresee how situations can work out, and 6/10 times it works out that way, not of my own accord. In the given situation, I knew he would want to swing his candle around (which he did, almost spilling hot wax on my mom AND grandma), and I knew it would land on my lap or my face when the time came to raise the candles. But being that he was edging away and trying to elbow me, my mother chipped in; "Steven (my name), leave him alone."

This of course, slightly irked me. I hadn't done anything wrong, I had been singing along, I had been helpful and I had dressed up accordingly, and with only five words spoken she'd already turned on me. She later swapped seats with my brother (which I mentioned earlier in the previous paragraph.) The rest of the service went on, and we left from the church. On our 20 minute car ride home, my little brother decided he should bring up our obese uncle to my grandma, focusing on sugar (really? you think that's the only thing that makes you fat? goddammit c'mon.) for the ENTIRE car ride. Sadly, at my misfortune, I had forgotten my headphones, so I eventually (after 5 minutes of his droning) just turned on my iPhone and pointed the speakers straight into my ear, a fairly low volume level.

This bothered nobody BUT my brother, commanding me "turn that down right now, your so rude," to which my mother finally sided with me, "____ leave him alone." This proved mostly ineffective, but I also didn't strangle him, so I guess to some degree it worked. So we went through the car ride, dropped of grandma, and drove back home in mostly silence, aside from my mother bringing up casual conversation with me and mentioning how my grandma thought I was well dressed. We got home, got out of the car, and I went straight to the kitchen; I was starving, and I didn't want to be with my little brother any further (we share a large computer room, both of our monitors about 3~4 ft apart from each other.) While I was enjoying a muffin (because why not?) I decided to raise a religion question with my mom. This is where things get dicey.

You see, I'm an agnostic christian. To better help those who don't know that term, an agnostic (at least, between myself and atheists) is anyone who doesn't believe in a given religion, but rather a higher entity / god. "God" is such a commonly used word nowadays that it carries little meaning, becoming both a title AND a name. There is A god, and THE god. But moving on, I asked my mom, "So if you believe in Jesus Christ and God, why not Santa? Or the Easter bunny?" While this was kinda rude, it was an honest question; what makes her believe more in two figures with no actual history aside from 2~3 books (bible, Qur'an, and I can't remember the other), written by men.

She responded with "Well why do you believe in Michelangelo, or Da Vinci? I believe in God and Jesus Christ, our lord and savior, because there is history that they exist." After this, she stormed out and I continued eating my muffin. She later came back, and to try and continue on, but without losing my hands, I asked "Well how about this, how about I search when the first church was made and who built it..." I wanted to just see how close it's creation was to the death of "Jesus Christ" OR when the bible was supposedly written (40 AD). To this, she retorted "Fine, but I don't really care, I know God and Jesus Christ exist, and I think you should really reconsider your whole life, because when you die and you have to spend eternity in purgatory, you're going to regret not believing in god."

She stormed out again, only to later come back and say this; "A piece of advice. Never bring up this subject with me in this household EVER again. You know why I think your doing this? To be an ass. You just want to be an starfish and ruin what I believe in. Well I don't wanna hear it." Well dawh, that just hurt my feelings... But... That doesn't really seem too mature... She kinda seemed to just be avoiding the facts I was tossing out.

So without further ado, I would like to put together my pros and cons of religion, particularly Christianity because I am most familiar with it. (Though I have experienced Buddhism, Hinduism, Catholicism and Atheism, all from past girlfriends and my current girlfriend as well)

PROS
It brings people in a community together
It promotes kindness (within' said religion)
It 'prevents' inappropriate behavior (i.e. swearing, manslaughter*, etc)

CONS**
the Wikipedia definition for 'religious war'
the huffington post on 13 silly commandments
20 problems with Christianity
Everyone judges you in church, it's just another excuse for the school bully to pick on you
Drinking the blood of Christ (wine/juice) is pretty damn similar to old rituals of drinking animal blood to cleanse the body. Just as heavenly I suppose.
the bible is inconsistent
The bible was written by men
The bible describes one being, accepted as male, who controls the universe.
atheistic view of the bible's inconsistencies
Church has the same ground rules as a library: be quiet, no running around, dress nicely, generally no fun.
Nobody really understands the bible/Christianity EXCEPT for maybe a pope or pastor
they always spew religious crap everywhere. Your on the beach in California? I garuntee someone will ask if you would be able to spare some time for Jesus.


So post your opinions! What are your beliefs? Go ahead and call me a sinner, I really don't mind, but please back up your opinion, with at least a biblical quote. Maybe we can communicate with exerts from the bible, I have 12 copies, all from different publishers! :]

*The bible is actually extremely violent, in one such case I recall the bible to command you to cut off the hands of your wife if she attempts to assist you in a fight, see cons for bible verse)

** Cons were cited from websites and personal experience within 7 different churches, which IS a little unfair towards the Pros.

Your move religion.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2012, 12:00:10 AM by AdinX »

trust me
this is BLF
no one will call you a sinner

You are a sinner.

I don't really get the "The bible describes one being, accepted as male, who controls the universe." considering God doesn't have a gender and how is that a con anyway? In fact all that cons list is forgeted up.
Most aren't actual cons, you have 2 points against inconsistency, just because you don't understand the bible doesn't mean nobody else does, the library rules wtf are you joking? I don't even know anymore but you seem very ignorant in this situation.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2012, 12:01:22 AM by Clone v.117 »

obviously religion is dumb, and the faithful aren't willing to have a real conversation about their religion because they know their side won't hold up

Honestly, I prefer the idea of polytheism, if anything. Before science explained things or even monotheistic religions, individual entities responsible for each different phenomena made more sense than one doing everything ever.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2012, 12:10:08 AM by Sabbin »

trust me
this is BLF
no one will call you a sinner
You are a sinner.
This more than anything is the defining trait of the blockland forums

Honestly, I prefer the idea of polytheism, if anything. Before science explained things, individual entities responsible for each different phenomena made more sense than one doing everything ever.
Before science explained things
do i even have to say anything about this one?


It brings people in a community together -- I can't really argue with this. Gang-raping a toddler also brings a community together.
It promotes kindness (within' said religion) -- Peace within a faction as a pro is like saying that Al-Qaeda is good because there's peace within Al-Qaeda.
It 'prevents' inappropriate behavior (i.e. swearing, manslaughter*, etc) -- Loads of "inappropriate" behavior is in the Bible, Quran, and various other religious texts.

OP I'm going to be straightforward, I outright ignored your entire portion of "without further ado here's my subjective view of religion which I hope you guys consider objectively".  I go to a Catholic high school and I consider myself an Agnostic Theist, and it's become clear from my experiences both with religion teachers and students who are religious that the best talk of religion can only be done between intellectuals who clearly respect other people's subjective views on religion (i.e. me and my best friend tend to talk about religion from time to time, just for the sake of conversation/history, and he's a hardcore Catholic).

The best approach to religion, as someone who isn't big on faith, is to just shut the forget up about it and deal with it when necessary (i.e. like how you had just dealt with going to Christmas Eve mass, just like I deal with school liturgies).

Oh and when it comes to religion, the same rule applies:  only attempt discussion with people you're sure aren't typical run-of-the-mill liberal anti-religious folk who are capable of respecting other's views.

She stormed out again, only to later come back and say this; "A piece of advice. Never bring up this subject with me in this household EVER again. You know why I think your doing this? To be an ass. You just want to be an starfish and ruin what I believe in. Well I don't wanna hear it." Well dawh, that just hurt my feelings... But... That doesn't really seem too mature... She kinda seemed to just be avoiding the facts I was tossing out.
As for this, you should just calmly go up to her and state that you were only asking questions and not intending to be an starfish.  In discussions like those, it's very easy to be misinterpreted and you should always consider religious conversation with a religious person to be very serious.  Always make sure that you're clear that you're just discussing and not arguing.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2012, 12:10:06 AM by Nickelob Ultra »

PoV 1: I believe in a few parts of the Bible.

PoV 2: I see this type of sibling relationship and family too often on the forums. I hope you don't get grounded.

Is destiny that one of these topics come up every so often.

The argument that there is historical evidence that Jesus existed is the best you can get, but there's also evidence that every other prophet existed, and now we call prophets schizophrenic...

how can you not believe in a religion but still call yourself an agnostic christian

0/10

I'll just start at the religious argument.
While I was enjoying a muffin (because why not?) I decided to raise a religion question with my mom. This is where things get dicey.

You see, I'm an agnostic christian. To better help those who don't know that term, an agnostic (at least, between myself and atheists) is anyone who doesn't believe in a given religion, but rather a higher entity / god. "God" is such a commonly used word nowadays that it carries little meaning, becoming both a title AND a name. There is A god, and THE god. But moving on, I asked my mom, "So if you believe in Jesus Christ and God, why not Santa? Or the Easter bunny?" While this was kinda rude, it was an honest question; what makes her believe more in two figures with no actual history aside from 2~3 books (bible, Qur'an, and I can't remember the other), written by men. In the last couple sentences, you're in the right. There is no reason to believe something with no historical or scientific backing.

She responded with "Well why do you believe in Michelangelo, or Da Vinci?

Probably because there are carbon dated writings of Da Vinci, first hand accounts of him, and not to mention a goddamn body of him. Michelangelo painted many paintings and murals, most of which are preserved to this very day. And also we have the corpse of Michelangelo. What do we have of Jesus? Nothing but four accounts of people living in the desert. As for God? Again, six or seven people living in the desert.


I believe in God and Jesus Christ, our lord and savior, because there is history that they exist."

There is no history besides that it is an undisprovable hypotheses.

After this, she stormed out and I continued eating my muffin. She later came back, and to try and continue on, but without losing my hands, I asked "Well how about this, how about I search when the first church was made and who built it..." I wanted to just see how close it's creation was to the death of "Jesus Christ" OR when the bible was supposedly written (40 AD). To this, she retorted "Fine, but I don't really care, I know God and Jesus Christ exist, and I think you should really reconsider your whole life, because when you die and you have to spend eternity in purgatory, you're going to regret not believing in god." Oh no, not the scientifically impossible place called purgatory! No!

She stormed out again, only to later come back and say this; "A piece of advice. Never bring up this subject with me in this household EVER again. You know why I think your doing this? To be an ass. You just want to be an starfish and ruin what I believe in. Well I don't wanna hear it." The only reason I gather he's doing this is the pursuit of soberness, truth, and the escape from the shackles of religion.

Well dawh, that just hurt my feelings... But... That doesn't really seem too mature... She kinda seemed to just be avoiding the facts I was tossing out.

So without further ado, I would like to put together my pros and cons of religion, particularly Christianity because I am most familiar with it. (Though I have experienced Buddhism, Hinduism, Catholicism and Atheism, all from past girlfriends and my current girlfriend as well)Buddhism is not a religion. Most, if not all, Buddhists are atheists. Buddha was an atheist. Just pointing it out.

PROS
It brings people in a community together -- I can't really argue with this. Gang-raping a toddler also brings a community together.
It promotes kindness (within' said religion) -- Peace within a faction as a pro is like saying that Al-Qaeda is good because there's peace within Al-Qaeda.
It 'prevents' inappropriate behavior (i.e. swearing, manslaughter*, etc) -- Loads of "inappropriate" behavior is in the Bible, Quran, and various other religious texts.

CONS**
the Wikipedia definition for 'religious war'
the huffington post on 13 silly commandments
20 problems with Christianity
Everyone judges you in church, it's just another excuse for the school bully to pick on you
Drinking the blood of Christ (wine/juice) is pretty damn similar to old rituals of drinking animal blood to cleanse the body. Just as heavenly I suppose.
the bible is inconsistent
The bible was written by men
The bible describes one being, accepted as male, who controls the universe.
atheistic view of the bible's inconsistencies
Church has the same ground rules as a library: be quiet, no running around, dress nicely, generally no fun.
Nobody really understands the bible/Christianity EXCEPT for maybe a pope or pastor
they always spew religious crap everywhere. Your on the beach in California? I garuntee someone will ask if you would be able to spare some time for Jesus.


So post your opinions! What are your beliefs? Go ahead and call me a sinner, I really don't mind, but please back up your opinion, with at least a biblical quote. Maybe we can communicate with exerts from the bible, I have 12 copies, all from different publishers! :]

*The bible is actually extremely violent, in one such case I recall the bible to command you to cut off the hands of your wife if she attempts to assist you in a fight, see cons for bible verse)

** Cons were cited from websites and personal experience within 7 different churches, which IS a little unfair towards the Pros.

Your move religion.

Took a while.