NSA PRISM Data Mining Program - What is your opinion?

[BubbaGum]

i like mashed potatoes with butter.

sir come with me please

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[Moonstar Akemi]

Because a depressed nation in the 1930s is totally comparable to the most powerful nation on the planet in 2013.

You're being pretty silly. You asked how the current events can be compared to other counties, I compared America to Germany, the same events took place. Does it really matter what year it happened or the state of crCIA the country was in? This also happened with China, Japan, the UK, Russia, Egypt, and so many more.

One more question: If we're such a powerful nation, why are we China's bitch?

D'you mind if I can sit in your house and observe what you're always doing.

You have nothing to hide, right?

This ^^^^

sir come with me please

Don't derail the topic.

[Ipquarx]

No, I mean, if it somehow escalates into the next holocaust

If this is the best excuse you have th-

You don't deserve to be spied on, even if you are a suspected terrorist. They can find you in a more reasonable way than.. this stuff. lol

1. Terrorists deserve to die.
2. The whole reason they want to put this into effect is because they literally cannot prove anything anymore because criminals have become too smart.

[dotdot: ultimatum]

If this is the best excuse you have th-
1. Terrorists deserve to die.
2. The whole reason they want to put this into effect is because they literally cannot prove anything anymore because criminals have become too smart.

I made a compendium of reading materials to counter everything you're saying as well as a large writeup that you can find by getting to the source of the quote below.

-snip-

There are lots of other material to explore this in more depth, here are some I liked:
http://www.wired.com/opinion/2013/06/why-i-have-nothing-to-hide-is-the-wrong-way-to-think-about-surveillance/
https://chronicle.com/article/Why-Privacy-Matters-Even-if/127461/
http://boingboing.net/2012/11/19/short-documentary-why-privacy.html
http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21571468-lenders-are-turning-social-media-assess-borrowers-stat-oil
and lastly, if you can stand reading through it this pretty much dissolves the "I have nothing to hide" fallacy:
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=998565&

-snip-

Like most people, you probably won't read them. It really saddens me that it seems like not many people care about this issue on these forums; they don't seem to realize that it's not just the privacy violations now. It's a progression empirically shown to lead places that nobody wants. There are many more reasons than the one I just immediately referenced though it doesn't really matter because I'm already wrong by posting this sentiment.

[sir dooble]

Pretty much what you just said, not trying to be rude.

My country doesn't have the same constitution as yours (the UK doesn't even have a written constitution).
And while your edit of my post is trying to get be sarcastic, it is what I believe.
I don't fear my own government.
I don't even fear your government (who are the ones doing the spying).

Legally my Government can't access the data that Prism and the NSA gathers without going through the regular procedures that my country has to go through in order to track data on someone which it normally uses.
And the only time they ever do this is when they have information to suggest that I may be linked with crime, such as terrorism.

So sure, your country can look at what I do while I browse google or have a skype-chat, but I don't think the USA is going to call for my extradition after they find out what research I like, or how I'm going to the cinema with my friends.

D'you mind if I can sit in your house and observe what you're always doing.

You have nothing to hide, right?

The US Government isn't observing what I am always doing.

They might be observing what I do when I use online companies that are hosted in the USA, but I'm not constantly plugged into the system.


If the US government were to turn up and stand around my house and watch me use the toilet, or sleep, or eat or watch TV, then I would have a problem.
As it happens, they're not doing that.

And even if they were, they wouldn't have any use out of it.
I don't give a stuff if they silently judge me for it. I'm breaking no laws. They can't arrest me for doing legal things that are normal and allowed in my country.

It's not like they can see that I ate Crunchy Nut Cornflakes this morning, link it to AlQaeda, call for my extradition and then waterboard me in Guantanamo Bay.

There seems to be something inherintally imprinted in the minds of Americans.
Some deep paranoia towards all governments ever.
I can't help but feel partly responsible. Did British Colonial America scare you that much that you can no longer trust the people you put in charge?

People like Moonstar Akemi are a great example.
Your government is listening in to terrorist activity on the internet, and suddenly they're turning into the Fourth Reich and the Gestapo.

[Doomonkey]

Does it really matter what year it happened or the state of crCIA the country was in?

Are you dense? That is possibly the most important thing. Oppressing a bunch of depressed people with no method of reaching out for help is easy. Oppressing the most overconfident bunch of people in the world who have global contacts and the largest fortunes on Earth is completely different. Especially considering that the President/Congress don't have nearly the unbreakable power that the leaders of other countries have.

This also happened with China, Japan, the UK, Russia, Egypt, and so many more.

No it didn't.

China got converted years ago, and that was only with the help of one of the most powerful nations on the planet. China is also currently a respectable nation so I'm not really sure what you are saying.

As for Japan and the UK, I haven't a clue what you are referring to.

In the case of Russia today, Putin tries to do some media events to impress the people and they all just laugh at him.

Egypt was already in horrible shape. And in it's case a new group of radical people came to power, which is not comparable to the US today.

One more question: If we're such a powerful nation, why are we China's bitch?

You really don't know anything about the world.

EDIT:

There seems to be something inherintally imprinted in the minds of Americans.
Some deep paranoia towards all governments ever.
I can't help but feel partly responsible. Did British Colonial America scare you that much that you can no longer trust the people you put in charge?

People like Moonstar Akemi are a great example.
Your government is listening in to terrorist activity on the internet, and suddenly they're turning into the Fourth Reich and the Gestapo.

The founding fathers of our country had a valid reason. The reason faded away over time, but the paranoia has grown. It is a mystery to me as well.

[Apak]

If this is the best excuse you have th-
1. Terrorists deserve to die.
2. The whole reason they want to put this into effect is because they literally cannot prove anything anymore because criminals have become too smart.

I only read the first article dotdot posted, but I do agree with the rest from looking at their titles ( Me being lazy...) Saying you have nothing to hide really isn't the right way to look at things. They can always pin you for something that really wasn't even a known law. Basically because there are so many laws we don't know about.  Also, privacy is a pretty precious thing. Even though we all have nothing to hide, why would you want some government agent going through your email conversations, along with skype convos. It just doesn't feel right.

D'you mind if I can sit in your house and observe what you're always doing.

You have nothing to hide, right?

[dotdot: ultimatum]

Legally my Government can't access the data that Prism and the NSA gathers without going through the regular procedures that my country has to go through in order to track data on someone which it normally uses.
And the only time they ever do this is when they have information to suggest that I may be linked with crime, such as terrorism.

The NSA stores everything that it can and is being shown that it utilizes zero days given to them BY Microsoft to gather even more. This will never be deleted and you will always have whatever you do archived. Also, determining what data can be accessed is said to be done in a 'secret court'. A court being secret completely defeats the purpose. You obviously haven't been paying attention to current news events considering that Edward Snowden -- the NSA whistleblower -- said that any data can be accessed at any time without any orders. Really the US government tries to save face, a lot of what is said to the public really isn't true sadly. Oh hey, have bad credit? Let's give that search query to other firms. Mass surveillance isnt the answer.

As I keep saying and most people are probably ignoring because it isn't a 2 sentence thoughtless reply, nobody cares and eventually it will turn into something that you wouldn't have imagined if everybody keeps not caring.

On the topic of "terrorists". It really is an enemy so broad that anyone can be blamed if the law enforcement has an enemy. Such was the case in the 70s (on a much smaller scale) when the racketeering laws were put into play. It was used literally as a blanked prosecution device to get anyone that law enforcement didn't like. In much the same way it really is a blanked term. It's also a 'war' that can be eternally run. Mark my words, the US will never get rid of all the terrorists. It's a losing battle much like the 'war on drugs'. That's gone well, hasn't it? It's not destroyed the lives of hundreds of thousands of victims and law enforcement is definitely in the right in /everything/ they do! It's bullstuff.

Edit: The erosion of privacy really affects the right of inquiry, as stated in a previously listed source. I don't want to think about what I have to search in Google so I'm not flagged as a "terrorist". I bet nobody here understands that considering that the only searches you query are facebook, furtopia, and blockland. That's not a good way to go. Obviously this is a superficial complaint compared to what can happen but it's just another brick in the wall.

[Moonstar Akemi]

I can't help but feel partly responsible. Did British Colonial America scare you that much that you can no longer trust the people you put in charge?

No, it's that we value freedom. I didn't know you didn't live in America or I wouldn't have pulled the fourth amendment argument, I apologize for that.

But yeah, if you lived in America and you felt the freedom that thousands have died for slowly slip away from you, you'd be flipping stuff as well.

[Moonstar Akemi]

If this is the best excuse you have th-
1. Terrorists deserve to die.
2. The whole reason they want to put this into effect is because they literally cannot prove anything anymore because criminals have become too smart.

So they have to spy on the entire country just to save a few hundred from potentially being injured or killed? That's absurd. No, "terrorists" don't deserve to die. Real terrorists do, but we hardly have any real "terrorists" in America. Besides, one country's terrorist is another country's hero. You know why we have terrorists? Because of all the stuff we did to them. In other countries, we're considered terrorists to them. I'm not saying I condemn terrorism, of course it's a horrible thing, but it doesn't mean we have to bypass the fourth amendment, take away everyone's privacy and freedom, and spy on millions just so we can make everyone feel a little more "safe" from the people who are attacking us because we invaded their country.

Have you ever heard of the saying "Innocent until proven guilty"? This isn't the way to prove someone's guilt. If you honestly believe that this is the right thing for the government to do, I advise you to move to the UK because this is America and I believe in liberty.

[sir dooble]

No, it's that we value freedom. I didn't know you didn't live in America or I wouldn't have pulled the fourth amendment argument, I apologize for that.

... I would have imagined that would be a big give-away.

But if you say you didn't know, you didn't know.

[Moonstar Akemi]

... I would have imagined that would be a big give-away.

But if you say you didn't know, you didn't know.

I suspected, but I tend not to judge by avatar. lol :p

[Harm94]

what you and several other people have to realize is they don't give a damn about your girlfriend or your skype chats
they don't just watch everyone 24/7
nobody's going to be "creeping" on your girlfriend undressing for you over skype
seriously quit being so paranoid

If this is the best excuse you have th-
1. Terrorists deserve to die.
2. The whole reason they want to put this into effect is because they literally cannot prove anything anymore because criminals have become too smart.

Also Terrorists are people too. After all a majority of this forum agreed the death penalty was cruel and unusual.

D'you mind if I can sit in your house and observe what you're always doing.

You have nothing to hide, right?

[Tomcat]

If this is the best excuse you have th-
1. Terrorists deserve to die.
2. The whole reason they want to put this into effect is because they literally cannot prove anything anymore because criminals have become too smart.

This would be a good place for the Benjamin Franklin quote right about now.

[Harm94]

I want cameras in every bathroom, don't want terrorists to make a nuclear device in their. People shouldn't mind because they have nothing to hide.