Author Topic: Harm's Guide and Observations of arguements and Debates Disscussion Thread  (Read 1984 times)

Hello forums.

I have created this guide based on my observations over a period of six years. Humans have been on this earth for long as you know and have been arguing amongst each other since the invention of a spoken language. The whole point to arguing is to persuade the opposition or in some cases a judge/jury. A debate would be a discussion on a certain issue. Before we go further into the subject let's look at the types of people in that you will likely encounter in a heated debates. Also types of Arguing.

Glossary:
You/Your Group
Pretty self explanatory.

The opposition
These are the people that that have different beliefs than you or your group and are trying to persuade you that they right.

The Pacifists
These guys are useless and do nothing. Their goals are to stop a debate from starting  while throwing a tarp over the issue and hope people to talk about it. Example: Someone who tell the Bronies and the Anti Bronies to shut up

Observers/Bystanders
These guys watch the debates that go on, sometimes they judge who had the better argument. Example: A jury

A Judge
Like the jury he or she will listen to both sides and weigh the facts and how both sides acted to decide who wins. Sometimes they have their own agenda and see both sides as flawed. example: Badspot/Admins

The Antagonizer/Troll
This type of character only seeks to start an argument for entertainment. example: Kaiiu
 
Quitter
Usually found on the opposition side. They give up the fight because they are either outmatched or know they can't win. They will usually reply with "I done with this thread.", "I'm going to a place where this stuff doesn't happen." example: ToothedDear, SirBricksAlot

The three basics: PEL
Pathos: Pathos is one of the most common forms of appealing as it involves emotion. The Media outlets like CNN love pathos(see the Travon Martin case). Basically you are trying to make the biggest sob story possible. example: "Look at these poor baby sea turtles on the brink of extinction as a result of big business dumping waste in the ocean."

Ethos: Probably one of the most rare forms of appealing as it involves ethics and nagging about everyday stuff. Ethos also involves talking about peoples character. Example: "It is unethical to wear a clown suit at a funeral.", "It is rude to talk with your mouth full", "It is unprofessional to slouch while you type."

Logos: Those who use logos tend use to logic and reason. Most of their argument is based around percentages, charts, numbers, history, and some times common sense. Using logos can be difficult since you need sources to back up your claim, sometimes your information comes from biased or skewed sources, sometimes it's fake and you loose legitimacy. examples: "Every year 30% of all forests are cut down.", "Every thirty minutes someone goes missing in the city of Chicago."

Other types of arguing
Strawman: Strawman is where you take something from the oppositions argument and blow it out of proportion. It is very common in political debates. For example a pro gun group will argue more for the right to self defense and that there should be more vigilantism since the police are unreliable. A leftist might say "But what if that guy who was mugging you was just pranking you, now that he is dead his son wont have a father and his wife will inherit his debts".

Buyer's Remorse: Buyer's remorse is when someone buys something that they don't like, but they try to justify there purchase as much as possible. Kind of like that ox brown townogy that will be made later. For example someone buys an xbox one and isn't satisfied, his best friend has been bugging him with xbox bashing memes for weeks and how the ps4 was better. Rather than admit to his friend about how he probably should have got a ps4(or PC) he will try to say how great something is when it really isn't. Probably the root of most fanboy arguments. Other examples: SimCity 5 fanboys


How to handle an argument

In order to argue you must have the following before you can start.

Knowledge of the subject
You must also have to know what the about oppositions argument to try and counter it
A calm attitude
You have to be civil
Proper language communication skills
Sources and information to back what you are saying
Always assume the opposition will never give in and will keep fighting

Human's are like Ox's, they are stubborn, don't like being told what to do, and they are hard to move(persuade); but there are many ways to move an ox.

Often most arguments are the from the result of an antagonizer or troll to get people to yell at each other. The best way to stop an argument is to take a deep breath and not reply or look at that post that makes you want to state your opinion. Basically not playing is the only way to win. If an argument does break out just let the thread run it's curse until people stop posting and it ends up on page 15.

Now for a different scenario. You like Vanilla ice cream, your friend likes mint. You say mint is superior, but your friend disagrees. Soon you too a fighting over what flavor is better so you have a third friend who likes both flavors judge your argument. You have many options here. You can belittle your opponent by responding to anything he says, you can keep arguing until one of you gives up like how most debates go. If you can't convince the opposition, you can try to convince
your judge that you are better man, just make sure to use any combination of PEL. Alternatively you can try showing the opposition the error of their ways or come to the realization that fighting over flavors is stupid to begin with.

Now things to take into consideration when you have a third party judge both sides is that you want to be civil, which means avoid getting angry, you want to avoid the use of slang, avoid the use of big words. They might sound nice and make you look smarter, but at the same time you will end up making yourself look a pretentious jerk. Also acting childishly by resorting to name calling and cursing you will probably lose support and people might listen to the other side. By being more mature and calm you make your self look the good guy.

Thank you for reading, I will try to add more onto this. Criticism, suggestions, and corrections are always welcome. Now discuss.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 04:52:24 PM by Harm94 »

"Criticism, suggestions, and corrections are always welcome."
Here's a few.

"You like Vanilla ice cream, your friend likes mint. You say mint is superior, but your friend disagrees."

I think you meant "You say Vanilla is superior, but your friend disagrees."
Your one doesn't really make sense, if I think the ice-cream I don't like is the best.

"The opposition
These are the people that that have different beliefs than you or your group and are trying to persuade you that they right."
*that they are right

" Using logos can be difficult since you need sources to back up your claim, sometimes your information comes from biased or skewed sources, sometimes it's fake and you loose legitimacy"
Should be "lose".
"loose" is only for describing if something is tight/free-moving or not. Ex: "The doctor said my stool was loose." or "The gorillas have escaped from the zoo. Now they're loose across the city."

"Basically not playing is the only way to win. If an argument does break out just let the thread run it's curse until people stop posting and it ends up on page 15."
*Course


I think there are a few more, but nevermind.

This is pretty good.


You should mention how there should be some form of etiquette to a good Debate.
Being that you shouldn't just try to shout the loudest to win.
Giving your opponent the chance to reply is part of the process, and they can't do that if you post the same thing in Caps every other post.

Also, don't claim you have won just because the opposition hasn't posted in a while.
We're on an international website, not a live debating show.
People do have other things to do than post on the internet, and may be asleep at different times of the day depending on timezone.
Just because someone disappears it doesn't mean they won't return in the morning and bite your bum.

Wow, this is pretty well written! One suggestion: remove "Buyer's Remorse" from other forms of arguing and give it it's own section, with a title like, "Common Argurment Starters". Other than that, good job!

You forgot ad hominem attacks, leading/loaded questions, and false inferences.

why is my name on this terrible guide?

why is my name on this terrible guide?
because you always
seek to start an argument for entertainment.

I think some examples in context would greatly befit this thread. I agree with almost everything that you've written here.

Anyways, I use a lot of logos when I argue with people, but I won't hesitate to call them names if the dialogue allows for a witty insult. I also use a lot of big words when I get mad, are you sure it's not always because someone is a pretentious jerk?

I think some examples in context would greatly befit this thread. I agree with almost everything that you've written here.

Anyways, I use a lot of logos when I argue with people, but I won't hesitate to call them names if the dialogue allows for a witty insult. I also use a lot of big words when I get mad, are you sure it's not always because someone is a pretentious jerk?
This is the best example I could find to what I was talking about.

I think we can all agree that 5.56 NATO is better than 7.62x39.

I can pull out a huge list of logical fallacies from my TOK class, both relating to form and content. I guess the biggest ones I can think of are are coincidental correlation, genuine but insignificant cause, appeal to ridicule, wrong direction, and begging the question (also know as circular logic).

why is my name on this terrible guide?
Well, this part:
this terrible guide
Fits in with this part:
only seeks to start an argument for entertainment.
Almost perfectly.

So, you just kinda in-directly answered your own question.

guide is completely incorrect

there's only one thing that contributes to an argument and that is volume. the louder you are, the more correct you are!

guide is completely incorrect

there's only one thing that contributes to an argument and that is volume. the louder you are, the more correct you are!
yep

Your strawman definition is also incorrect
It's a misrepresentation, not a overfocus on a minor point

I think we can all agree that 5.56 NATO is better than 7.62x39.

Yup. 5.56 was designed to wound so the opposing faction would have to spend money/supplies to treat the wounds. Injury costs > death costs. 5.56 = excellent war ammunition.

also the 5.56 is high velocity, lightweight, and has lesser recoil which is obviously a given

OT:
can you fix OP so it's more subtle in the biased parts
not that i don't agree with your bias lol