Author Topic: praying before you eat  (Read 23151 times)

Well then, sir, go read on it.  There seems to be more proof that it DID happen than it DIDN'T.
MY SIDES.

LOL I CANT BELIEVE SOMEONE ACTUALLY BELIEVES THE NOAH'S ARK STORY OH MY loving GOD
ITS SUPPOSED TO BE A YOUNG CHILDREN'S STORY
Well near the end of ice many of the glaciers melted and the sea level rose 100ft. Also creating the black sea and badlands. There was great flood so to speak. It wiped a good portion of the megafauna like the mammoth, wooly-rhino, ect. We barely survived if our ancestors hadn't learned to farm and adapt.

Also even then, paleolithic humans had some sort of religion thing going on.
See: Gebelki Tepe
Venus Statues
« Last Edit: October 26, 2013, 09:28:57 PM by Harm94 »

Well near the end of ice many of the glaciers melted and the sea level rose 100ft. Also creating the black sea and badlands.
i have a higher chance of believing that
but not that the ocean rose so high there was no land,  there was some guy name noah who built a boat, every single animal crowded onto that boat, etc

"He has fixed the earth firm, immovable." (1 Chronicles 16:30)
"Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ..." (Psalm 93:1)
"Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken." (Psalm 104:5)
"...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast..." (Isaiah 45:18)
"He has fixed the earth firm, immovable." (Chronicles 16:30)
"He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ..." (Psalm 96:10)
"I shall make the heavens tremble, and the earth will be shaken from its place." (Isa. 13:13)

"The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose." (Ecclesiastes 1:5)
"Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon. And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day." (Joshua 10, 12-13)
“Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the.” (Job 9:7)

The problem is that the bible is meant to share absolute knowledge.  People being ignorant of their surroundings at the time implies that the book is not credible and shouldn't ever be considered anything but ancient literature, not a resource for historical accuracies.

I think the intended purpose of the bible is not "absolute knowledge" in a broad sense (free will could be used by humans to figure out how to best manage and understand overseering the earth from their own inquiry), but as a source of wisdom for what the Yahweh, God, etc. desired in terms of action from his people in worship and ethical behavior, and illustrated the history of involvement of God in the world. In many translations, it could also be argued that the shaking of the earth from its foundation represented a shift in the environment on earth whether it be the order of kingdoms, the stability of the ecosystem, the social establishment of man, etc., that's the way I would probably justify it based on the fact that Isaiah said he "founded" the earth (in my translation at least) and gave it internal stability rather than a fixed position in outer space.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2013, 09:30:54 PM by Dodger »

i have a higher chance of believing that
but not that the ocean rose so high there was no land,  there was some guy name noah who built a boat, every single animal crowded onto that boat, etc
lol, imagine some Neanderthal's building a wooden boat and riding a large wave

Well then, let me include some equal sites on proof that it didn't happen, and I'll try proving them wrong.

"God would not massacre everyone."

Proof: The verses on this site do not show the rest of the context.  The people were being punished.

"God senselessly murdered millions of humans and billions of animals in the flood."

My retort: Genesis 6:1-8

http://www.biblicalnonsense.com/chapter6.html

"we have a god who has to modify virtually all of his creations for the solely expressed reason of the people having become wicked and evil (Genesis 6:5), yet wicked and evil people continue to exist throughout the Bible."

My retort: Genesis 3:1-24

"A little known but important piece of information about the Genesis flood is that the extremely similar Epic of Gilgamesh in the Sumerian legend predates Noah’s story by at least one thousand years in the written form and at least five hundred years for the setting."

My retort:

The Epic of Gilgamesh contains parts of the Flood from how other people viewed it.  It was written by the pagan Mesopotamians if I remember right.  Noah's Ark is how Christians relate to it.  There are other stories too, such as that of Sargon (also Mesopotamia).  Similar stories come from Hawaii, Australasia, China, old England, etc.  Look at it as Noah's Ark originated from the Flood itself, along with all the other stories, it really seems that a Great Flood did in fact happen (otherwise, how would stories originate from all over the world with no means of international communication).

"The amount necessary to produce a flood of global proportions far exceeds the current amount available on, in, and above the earth."

I already explained this^

"One should also realistically expect at least a scant amount of geological or natural evidence for a global flood if the supernatural catastrophe took place, but the signs overwhelmingly point to the contrary."

Explained this too, the Pacific Rift Valley and Mid-Atlantic Ridge don't look like catastrophes now, but they probably caused the flood when the Pacific's floor caved in.

“How did Noah get all those animals to fit on the ark?”

My retort: Back thousands of years ago, there was not as much animal diversity (as in not as many breeds of different animals, since there was scant enough time for inter-breeding to occur that far back in the planet's history)

" The seemingly immune marine life could have fared no better than their terrestrial counterparts because, first of all, the rapid mixture of salt and fresh water from the conglomeration of various pure water sources would have killed all known marine creatures in a matter of hours. End of story."

Retort: A lot of marine life WAS wiped out.  Also, the concentration of all these substances would have been much lower in so much water.

" The world’s vegetation should also join the growing list of organisms without immunity from the effects of the morally shameful flood."

Retort: A lot of plants DID go extinct.  Seeds that survived the flood or could go dormant after buried under sediment would have survived the flood.

" It’s painfully obvious that the story is burdened with a number of significant problems. For this reason, many apologists will attempt a hopeless defense for it by suggesting that the tale was speaking of a local flood."

Retort: How would a local flood be that deep?  How would stories originate all over the planet?

Before telling me what I didn't point out, I only covered what I thought were major points of how the flood could NOT exist.

you can't use the bible as a source because it's a fairy tale lol

You also can't read anything I post for some reason.

lol, imagine some Neanderthal's building a wooden boat and riding a large wave
gj you just ignored half of what i said

Ya, FACT.  Scientific Law.  No flaw.  Books stacked up of proof.  I'll give you my opinion on the Great Flood.

The Epic of Gilgamesh contains parts of the Flood from how other people viewed it.  It was written by the pagan Mesopotamians if I remember right.  Noah's Ark is how Christians relate to it.  There are other stories too, such as that of Sargon (also Mesopotamia).  Similar stories come from Hawaii, Australasia, China, old England, etc.  Look at it as Noah's Ark originated from the Flood itself, along with all the other stories, it really seems that a Great Flood did in fact happen (otherwise, how would stories originate from all over the world with no means of international communication).

The Bible says "the fountains of the deep burst open".  This leads to the Wiffle Ball Effect (as some call it).  Take note of the Pacific Rift Valley.  It is a deep lowland that occupies the very center of the Pacific Ocean.  On the exact other side of the world is the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, which is a mountain range that runs down the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.
   In the Wiffle Ball Effect, there are cusps that are formed in the corners of the Pacific that looks almost like a big thumb pushed into a wiffle ball.  It seems that the Pacific Ocean "caved in" if you will.  When (or if) this happened, it caused the mass underneath to push through the planet, jutting the Atlantic's ocean floor upwards.  If such a catastrophic event occured, it would fire water into the air (it would also cause massive tsunamis).  When the water shot into the air, it came down again as very heavy torrential rain.
   Now where would "of the deep" come from?  Does that mean there was water under the surface of the Earth.  Yes.  There are two "oceans" underneath the surface of the Earth (one is underneath Asia).  Theories say that ocean water seeps under the ocean floor and collects underneath.  When such an event would have happened, the underground "floodgate" would have ruptured releasing trillions of tons of sea water a vapor.
   What about Pangaea, the massive supercontinent?  That could very well have existed.  When the ocean floor ruptured, causing the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, the continents slid down the sides of it, parting (Continental Drift).  South America and Africa are still drifting apart to this day.
  The Flood can also link to the formation of comets.  Although this seems unlikely (I don't know enough about it to consider it true), the water and vapor that shot into the sky theoretically made it to the atmosphere.  Any of it that was moving too fast to be pulled back by Earth's gravity kept moving out into space.  In space, anything that exists has gravity.  The frozen water crystals used their own gravity to lure in more water crystals.  When the ball of crystals grew big enough to be pulled my the sun's gravity, it went into orbit and became a comet.  Where else would ice come from in space?

I learned most of this going to lectures on the subject.  Don't freaking tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about.  I don't know about the reliability of these sites, but they seem to support what I've heard and believe.

Huge oceans under the Earth
Comet formation
Where did the water come from?
The Epic of Giglamesh was polytheistic.  It defies the credibility of your bible, implying one or the other is or isn't true, not both.

The stories all conflict with each other and aren't written in the same time period.  It isn't proof of a great flood.  Hell, if you're so convinced it is, how in the world would these people understand it as a worldwide flood, when it only covered their land.   You yourself said they didn't have the ability to contact other lands in great distances.  Oh, and on that note, they wouldn't have been able to live through a flood to give testaments of their knowledge.

ITT: xr-7 is dumb, lalam gets #rekt, stocking is 2smart4me
Right, because "lol, I'm going to mock you and make stuff up to assume superiority" is a valid and intellectual argument.

The angsty fedoratheists should be thankful for religion. Humans questioned how things came to be, then the idea of religion was created as a means to explain everything, then that thought went further with alchemy and astrology, and boom science.
gj you just ignored half of what i said
ofcourse I ignored it, because the boat part is impossible. Obviously we just moved to higher land and survived.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2013, 09:52:19 PM by Harm94 »

The angsty fedoratheists should be thankful for religion. Humans questioned how things came to be, then the idea of religion was created as a means to explain everything, then that thought went further with alchemy and astrology, and boom science.
You're making it seem as if logic based on your surroundings couldn't exist without tales being completely overblown by some delusional individuals.

"Angsty fedoratheists" aren't posting here, though.  Quit bringing up a side (stereotype) that's nonexisting to try and forward an argument that's quite clearly false.

Because most of this is speculative, I want to point one thing out,

My retort: Back thousands of years ago, there was not as much animal diversity (as in not as many breeds of different animals, since there was scant enough time for inter-breeding to occur that far back in the planet's history)
Thousands of years ago there was just as much diversity.  I can't account for an exact number, but even if it were below, it would be so insignificant that it would make little to no difference.  Thousands of years is nothing when it comes to a species' development.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2013, 09:55:23 PM by Lalam24 »

This topic has more text than the harry potter series

You're making it seem as if logic based on your surroundings couldn't exist without tales being completely overblown by some delusional individuals.

"Angsty fedoratheists" aren't posting here, though.  Quit bringing up a side (stereotype) that's nonexisting to try and forward an argument that's quite clearly false.
I use the term angsty fedoratheists to describe a certain faction within the atheist community. You have to understand that during the Neolithic period didn't have the means of understand that we have today, they only had stories and looking at the stars. The creation of religion is only part of man's evolution in understanding the universe. Without those delusional tales as you call them, people wouldn't really think to question those things and develop a higher level of thinking.

I use the term angsty fedoratheists to describe a certain faction within the atheist community. You have to understand that during the Neolithic period didn't have the means of understand that we have today, they only had stories and looking at the stars. The creation of religion is only part of man's evolution in understanding the universe. Without those delusional tales as you call them, people wouldn't really think to question those things and develop a higher level of thinking.
Again, you're under the impression that the only way to gain knowledge is through IMMENSE error, rather than simple questioning.  There were thousands of ways to ignore religion yet intellectually evolve as we are today.