Free market or govt controlled economy?

[Kearn]

Free market with minimal govt. regulation to ensure fair competition and enforce property rights

[Ad Bot]

[Nonnel]

Now this is an incredibly ridiculous argument, the notion that we shouldn't help disabled people is preposterous.

If you want to help the disabled or the poor or some third world country you should start a private charity, it is not the government's job.

[SeventhSandwich]

Instead of adding gifted classes, we should be adding more programs for the disabled. If they were so gifted, then they could compete with regular performing kids.

You are completely missing the point of gifted education.

Now this is an incredibly ridiculous argument, the notion that we shouldn't help disabled people is preposterous.

There is not a shortage of special education classes in schools. The legislation for special education is actually very strong and children with IEPs and 504 plans are entitled to getting help in school. Both documents are legally-binding too.

[Caribou]

You are completely missing the point of gifted education.
There is not a shortage of special education classes in schools. The legislation for special education is actually very strong and children with IEPs and 504 plans are entitled to getting help in school. Both documents are legally-binding too.

What is the point of it? For children who learn at a faster pace, and need more advanced material? I know what the purpose of it is, and the intent of it but with all due respect, their parents can pay out of pocket for tutoring outside or inside school. I am talking about heavier laws toward bullying the disabled, trying to get many of the disabled people into the regular world, and trying to help them get onto the same academic level as others. I realize some disabled people are not mentally equipped for it, but some are if we invest enough in our kids.

If you want to help the disabled or the poor or some third world country you should start a private charity, it is not the government's job.

I do believe, that it is not the Government's job to look out for the people of foreign nations. With that being said, I also do believe that the people of the country the Government is looking after are far more important. ALTHOUGH, when it comes to an important issue like this; the Government has every right to involve itself in helping the disabled. It's like helping critically ill people who are about to die and need medical marijuana but don't have access to it since it isn't legal in their state, as that is their last option, should that be a private charity's job or the Government's?

[Nonnel]

It's like helping critically ill people who are about to die and need medical marijuana as that is their last option, should that be a private charity's job or the Government's?

Assuming they're not poor, their hospital should provide marijuana.

[SeventhSandwich]

It's like helping critically ill people who are about to die and need medical marijuana as that is their last option, should that be a private charity's job or the Government's?

That's a remarkably poor example because medical marijuana is dispensed by private organizations run within a regulatory framework and licensed by the government.

[Caribou]

Assuming they're not poor, their hospital should provide marijuana.

Assume they are poor, have no insurance, and the hospital has a high fee for it, would it be appropriate for a privately-run charity to step in, or the Government?

[Nonnel]

Assume they are poor, have no insurance, and the hospital has a high fee for it, would it be appropriate for a privately-run charity to step in, or the Government?

Why would the government get involved?
They or a family member or a friend or someone should be able to walk to the store and buy some.
If this is a case where marijuana is still illegal which it shouldn't be, a private charity could be the one to raise money for the person's medical bill.

[SeventhSandwich]

What is the point of it? For children who learn at a faster pace, and need more advanced material?

Yes, actually. It has nothing to do with 'competing' with other students. You're just holding back an entire group of students by teaching them under a curriculum that moves too slowly. I know tons of people who had this problem, including me.

I know what the purpose of it is, and the intent of it but with all due respect, their parents can pay out of pocket for tutoring outside or inside school.

Are you implying that only rich kids are smart? What you're essentially doing right now is defending a paradigm that is partially responsible for why poorer socioeconomic groups do worse on tests and end up going to college less often. I'm starting to get a strong feeling that you know a whole lot of nothing about what you're talking about right now.

I am talking about heavier laws toward bullying the disabled, trying to get many of the disabled people into the regular world, and trying to help them get onto the same academic level as others.

So what's the issue with gifted education again?

[Caribou]

Why would the government get involved?
They or a family member or a friend or someone should be able to walk to the store and buy some.
If this is a case where marijuana is still illegal which it shouldn't be, a private charity could be the one to raise money for the person's medical bill.

If the person doesn't have the money, then they simply cant get it. The Government has the legal grounds to look out for the well being of its people. Keep in mind, I think all recreational forms of any drug should be strictly looked down upon and criminalized but medical marijuana - no. It is blatant that it has many benefits, blatant.

Yes, actually. It has nothing to do with 'competing' with other students. You're just holding back an entire group of students by teaching them under a curriculum that moves too slowly. I know tons of people who had this problem, including me.
Are you implying that only rich kids are smart? What you're essentially doing right now is defending a paradigm that is partially responsible for why poorer socioeconomic groups do worse on tests and end up going to college less often. I'm starting to get a strong feeling that you know a whole lot of nothing about what you're talking about right now.
So what's the issue with gifted education again?

You are not holding back an entire group of students. What you are simply doing is helping the kids who need the help the most; which are the disabled. If they need to be pushed, then their parents can be involved and buy workbooks, or the kid can go to the library and educate him or her self there, or you know use the Internet as a learning space.

I never implied any particular class were smart. Poorer socioeconomic groups such as minorities predominantly do worse on tests because a lot of the time they come from families where there isn't much food put down onto the table, they experience a lot of violence, and/or come from incompetent households. Plain and simple. I think you may need a better clue of what you are talking about.

[SeventhSandwich]

You are not holding back an entire group of students. What you are simply doing is helping the kids who need the help the most; which are the disabled. If they need to be pushed, then their parents can be involved and buy workbooks, or the kid can go to the library and educate him or her self there, or you know use the Internet as a learning space.

There is not a shortage of gradeschool teachers. We have enough special education teachers, but the problem is the overall quality of the education in those programs. Remind me how dismantling gifted education and holding back an entire group of students working above grade-level is going to help disabled children again?

Furthermore, 'buying workbooks' and 'using the internet' requires money which many families do not have. Are you not seeing why this is an issue, or do you live in one of those gated communities that voluntarily rejects the existence of poor people and minorities?

I never implied any particular class were smart. Poorer socioeconomic groups such as minorities predominantly do worse on tests because a lot of the time they come from families where there isn't much food put down onto the table, they experience a lot of violence, and/or come from incompetent households. Plain and simple. I think you may need a better clue of what you are talking about.

"Poorer social groups do worse on tests because their families cannot afford food, but my solution is that they should just buy computers and private tutoring sessions so that they do better! Why hasn't anyone thought of this before?"

[Nonnel]

If the person doesn't have the money, then they simply cant get it. The Government has the legal grounds to look out for the well being of its people. Keep in mind, I think all recreational forms of any drug should be strictly looked down upon and criminalized but medical marijuana - no. It is blatant that it has many benefits, blatant.

If they're too poor to afford living, then they shouldn't live.

[Caribou]

There is not a shortage of gradeschool teachers. We have enough special education teachers, but the problem is the overall quality of the education in those programs. Remind me how dismantling gifted education and holding back an entire group of students working above grade-level is going to help disabled children again?

Furthermore, 'buying workbooks' and 'using the internet' requires money which many families do not have. Are you not seeing why this is an issue, or do you live in one of those gated communities that voluntarily rejects the existence of poor people and minorities?

You can get workbooks or study books at the library, and you can use the Internet at the library. It's either you cater to disabled kids, or you let many of them get worse and worse to the point where they are sent to a mental institution. I am talking about very disabled people (mainly mentally, and some physical too).

If they're too poor to afford living, then they shouldn't live.

10/10

[SeventhSandwich]

You can get workbooks or study books at the library

Predominantly geared towards college-kids.

You can get workbooks or study books at the library, and you can use the Internet at the library. It's either you cater to disabled kids, or you let many of them get worse and worse to the point where they are sent to a mental institution. I am talking about very disabled people (mainly mentally, and some physical too).

So if the solution is just to let them use workbooks and the internet at libraries, then why is this even an issue to begin with? If the problem can just be solved by having people go to the library and study on the internet, then communities with libraries should have no socioeconomic gap in test scores. Of course they do, so you've refuted your own hypothesis.

[Nonnel]

10/10

great rebuttal