Author Topic: What is your stance on abortion? (Abortion discussion)  (Read 42376 times)

contradicting yourseld again ggggg.

weve been saying that this whole time.
Ah, but it does not have to be an organism to be living. Just look at the organization levels of life.

Comparing these two instances side by side in a medical scenario, would the medical staff be held to uphold a quota or limit to what "kind" of children can be born, or to observe and discern upon comparative scenarios?
I actually haven't thought about that.

I haven't really thought who the "controlling body" should be. My idea is that the medical staff should be responsible for decisions relating to the physical health of the mother and child and they should use all their relevant evidence and research in order to make a judgement on whether a child's birth could effectively damage a mother's health, and then take action to prevent that birth if necessary. (tl;dr Quota/Limit in terms of physical health)

As for the circumstances surrounding the child...I think that's really upto the parents, who may not be the best judges unfortunately. I would hope the parents would do their research and decide if a child is right for them, but realistically without some kind of inspection service, it's a hit and miss.

Probably not the answer you're looking for, but it's one of the things I've not actually thought about and these are my very brief first thoughts on the subject.

That's perfectly fine.  To be honest, it's the first time I ever presented this idea.

On a side note, I am a very socially inept and reserved person, so the internet is really the only place I can communicate my thoughts clearly.

Anyways, that's a perfectly fine answer.  I couldn't answer it more thoroughly myself.  However, in perspective, the question I asked also had another question buried beneath it, and that is "Should the medical and/or pharmaceutical industry have power to decide in these matters when a personal life comes into play, or should government even have the right to distribute this power?"  Naturally, America, which I presume is the most relevant nation in this entire discussion, is diverse, but within America are prides and prejudices.  Would this power be corrupted by said prides and prejudices?

I suppose that may have been a bit tangential and heading for a dystopian scenario, though.

I should have reintroduced myself.  I am pro-life, and am a Christian, and while I firmly believe in my religion, I do seek to exclude it from this conversation outright since on a level of scientifically-leaning philosophy, it has no quantifiable basis.

Edit:  I'm sorry.  I completely sidetracked.  Tbh I believe that we have to skirt around the outer issues before we can conclude anything at center.  I don't know how in the world we'll get there though.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2014, 04:14:08 AM by SWAT One »

I appreciate your honesty and your approach. This has been rather interesting.

This will probably be my last post for a couple hours, since I'm really not feeling well and I want to get some sleep before I see my doc tomorrow morning.

Just a head up, I'm Catholic, but I have no concerns with abortion (whatever the term for that is), which is most likely because I've moved away from taking all my values directly from the bible, and instead study many religions, philosophy and science (specifically psychology) and choose perspectives that logically make sense for me.

Should the medical and/or pharmaceutical industry have power to decide in these matters when a personal life comes into play, or should government even have the right to distribute this power?"  Naturally, America, which I presume is the most relevant nation in this entire discussion, is diverse, but within America are prides and prejudices.  Would this power be corrupted by said prides and prejudices?
A very good question, and I absolutely do think that pride and prejudice will change the biases. Corruption occurs, and creating/following a list of standards is very difficult.

To me, I think the medical industry, specifically hospital staff and therapists should offer free services in order to research everything about the couple that are having/would like to have a child and their lives, and then be able to administer advice and anything else based on their findings. If it's done before a couple conceives, that's a safe measure that would likely cost the state less than either having to pay for childbirth/schooling funds or anything the parents don't pay for in the abortion process.

Maybe even simplified down to a simple questionnaire and medical exam.

I think this is extremely relevant, since it has to do with alternate measures to abortion, or at least deciding on whether an abortion is appropriate. Having professional advice is something we should value as important to the process, as well as our own personal values.

But, I'm sure there's many faults in my idea, and that's okay. Really, I'm just here to see what interesting debates we can pull out of certain questions.

Your argument is valuable, and I appreciate it.  Thank you for giving me your time, and thank you for remaining honorable in your replies.  I hope we can continue that at a later time, but inevitably, this topic will fill up with distasteful comments, so if you are so inclined, I would like to continue it by pm, however, my guess is that there is some sort of audience to our discussion, and I wouldn't dare to withhold any information/debate/reasoning/entertainment from them.  If anyone wants this particular discussion to continue, please let me know.

It is 1:35 in the morning at the time I typed this line, so I am naturally very tired, so I must withdraw for a few hours.

Anyways, I'd like to know where your argument comes from.  I noticed on your profile that you said you were from Australia.  I am aware that Australia manages itself with compulsory elections, rather than voluntary elections, and although America and Australia were identified in a study exceeding 40 years to be the most culturally similar, there must be some sort of line drawn that distinguishes social and political liberties.

You are at liberty to knock down any false assumptions I may have, but my guess is that your position grows out of the idea that there is a need for compulsory social programs.  I don't necessarily disagree with you—some such programs have proven to people's benefit.  All things considered, however, the idea of compulsory educational programs for expectant parents might be problematic and a funnel for funds, not necessarily a waste.  For instance, mothers' opinions are not guaranteed to change during the informative process.  Even if the end result is the same as they wanted originally, it would accomplish at least two things.  The first is that it put the parent(s) through unnecessary schooling.  The second is that it could be used as a tool to place liability on the parent(s).

Also this thread really upped your posts per day stat lol.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2014, 04:48:26 AM by SWAT One »

A fetus IS A LIVING, BREATHING, HUMAN CHILD!
Everyone keeps throwing the word 'fetus' around without knowing what it means
A fetus is >8 weeks
Most abortions are done before this stage; what's being aborted isn't even a fetus
Stop using that word to make your argument because it'll go nowhere; whether or not fetuses are children, alive, breathing, can feel pain, or anything like that, is irrelevant, because it's not fetuses being aborted
« Last Edit: November 14, 2014, 08:01:44 AM by Headcrab Zombie »

Holy stuff, you guys are still going on with this?


What about a situation where a father rapes his daughter and impregnates her? You seriously believe that girl should have to support and raise a constant reminder of horrible loveual abuse? How would you explain that to the child? Do you really want them to have to live with that? Did you even for a moment consider the effects having a child from rape or loveual abuse can have on the mother? Stop treating this as a black and white issue.

What about situations where an abortion is the only way to save the mother's life? Should they both die when at least one can be saved? Should her husband have to live with the loss of his entire family instead of just their child, when they could potentially try again in the future? Stop treating this as a black and white issue.

What about when the parents find out their child is severely disabled before birth? Why should she have to carry the child to term if it's not going to live more than a few days anyway? Should they have to cope with a serious burden on them for the rest of their life for a child that isn't even aware of its own existence? Stop treating this as a black and white issue.

Unless you specifically address every question in this post, I'm ignoring any reply you give, if you even give one.

This is why people dictating what a woman should be able to do with her body pisses me off.

I'm still waiting for Derontchi to respond to this.

i bet the people against abortion eat meat too, infact the animals probably have more brain function than the stuff we're aborting
talk about double standards lol

I'm still waiting for Derontchi to respond to this.
I did like 13 pages ago.

Everyone keeps throwing the word 'fetus' around without knowing what it means
A fetus is >8 weeks
Most abortions are done before this stage; what's being aborted isn't even a fetus
Stop using that word to make your argument because it'll go nowhere; whether or not fetuses are children, alive, breathing, can feel pain, or anything like that, is irrelevant, because it's not fetuses being aborted
Still irrelevant. It's still a living thing whether you want to see it or not. What's being aborted is a life. It has the potential to become a full-grown human being.
i bet the people against abortion eat meat too, infact the animals probably have more brain function than the stuff we're aborting
talk about double standards lol
Humans are meat eaters. That's a fact of nature. Meat is part of our diet and many other animals' diets. But abortion is NOT a natural thing. It's really a crime against nature. C'mon, Frankie.


"Remember, God is not an abortionist, sometimes, you'll have to take a knife to that child."

i bet the people against abortion eat meat too, infact the animals probably have more brain function than the stuff we're aborting
talk about double standards lol
cows don't grow up to be human

Still irrelevant.
"No, you're irrelevant!"
It's not irrelevant. What your said is simply not true, because a) most abortions are not done on fetuses, and b) at the stage they are done at, they are not breathing