Are current math systems crap?

[Car Selling Pyro]

common core is a joke

[Ad Bot]

[Swat 3]

common core is a joke

basically, yes

especially the standardized tests that come with it. what a joke. (especially standardized tests in general, really)

we should be working on applying the math we learn, not learning how to find the inverses of bloody loving functions and solving 50 of them as one homework assignment.

[SetGaming]

common core is a joke

"solve 20*10 by moving blocks into sets of ten"

this is what I'm worried about - we teach kids this one, extremely simple way to do things, and once they hit algebra they're screwed

[otto-san]

well things like that help visual learners understand the concept better


common core has good intentions but the implementation is sloppy

quality of education can't be increased by making it harder; you make it better by making it easier to absorb. this is obviously largely dependent on a competent teacher, but the material can speak for itself in many cases.

[Oasis]

"solve 20*10 by moving blocks into sets of ten"

this is what I'm worried about - we teach kids this one, extremely simple way to do things, and once they hit algebra they're screwed

From my experience with my little sister's homework in elementary school, common core math is more complicated than what I learned. Honestly, it's the most confusing way to learn stuff that should be simple and basic enough to just be something you know as you move on.

[SetGaming]

well things like that help visual learners understand the concept better


common core has good intentions but the implementation is sloppy

quality of education can't be increased by making it harder; you make it better by making it easier to absorb. this is obviously largely dependent on a competent teacher, but the material can speak for itself in many cases.

but the earth isn't 100% visual

I learn better verbal and alone, but forcing visual stuff and extroverted projects on me isn't very fun

I mean, you're completely right, it's in good intention, but it feels like the people making it are all people who have no clue about education and just want to throw something at the wall and see what sticks

[otto-san]

it's important to tend to all learning styles in education so no one misses out. i'm a tactile learner. i have a lot of trouble in history because history is all mindless information and nothing more. the most tactile i can get out of history is writing notes. i excel in math because math is almost exclusively tactile, while i'm sure visual and auditory learners struggle more because their minds aren't rigged to learn through execution as math is traditionally taught.

[SetGaming]

From my experience with my little sister's homework in elementary school, common core math is more complicated than what I learned. Honestly, it's the most confusing way to learn stuff that should be simple and basic enough to just be something you know as you move on.

yeah, just making an easier example, but that's the problem, adults should be able to understand the concepts, too

I really dislike how everything is "solve it, work around it, solve another way," because that's not how people think

the multiple methods thing leaves people confused and provides very unnecessary uses. I wish the American education system would realize that you can't make everyone a genius unless you manipulate genes, (which I'm totally okay with.) which leaves schools scrambling to find good results for the 3 standardized tests kids have to take every trimester

[SeventhSandwich]

"solve 20*10 by moving blocks into sets of ten"

this is what I'm worried about - we teach kids this one, extremely simple way to do things, and once they hit algebra they're screwed

This is actually a good method to initially teach kids arithmetic. It's hard to fathom not being able to understand why the fastest algorithms and techniques for doing arithmetic work, but that's the reality for lots of people who had bad math teachers in the early grades. If you teach kids a method that is easy to understand conceptually, they won't feel as uncertain when you teach them the 'normal' way of doing math.

I'd compare this to how most high school calculus classes are run. Students get taught the limit definition of a derivative first, and then after they've learned it they get taught all the various rules and shortcuts for differentiation. Without the conceptual background of knowing how a derivative works, none of those rules make any sense and most students would forget them almost immediately.

the multiple methods thing leaves people confused and provides very unnecessary uses. I wish the American education system would realize that you can't make everyone a genius unless you manipulate genes, (which I'm totally okay with.) which leaves schools scrambling to find good results for the 3 standardized tests kids have to take every trimester

I don't think we should structure our educational system with failure in mind. In almost any other discipline of academia, the goal everyone works towards is improving the system at hand. If you're a medical researcher working on a cancer treatment, you work to make treatments that help everyone with cancer with the assumption in mind that it's possible. There's no evidence that (healthy) people are born with inherently lower/higher intelligences because of certain genes. In fact, the apparent heritability of intelligence probably has much more to do with environment (wealth, access to good schools, family structure, etc) than anything in your genome.

[SetGaming]

it's important to tend to all learning styles in education so no one misses out. i'm a tactile learner. i have a lot of trouble in history because history is all mindless information and nothing more. the most tactile i can get out of history is writing notes. i excel in math because math is almost exclusively tactile, while i'm sure visual and auditory learners struggle more because their minds aren't rigged to learn through execution as math is traditionally taught.

good point, but common core is visual only. tactile and verbal are completely left out. The way I do math is only in my mind, so when I have to write it down - and I'm a VERY slow writer - it looks like I'm struggling. Showing work is my complete weakness, so every teacher thinks I'm lazy as well. People like me usually get left out of it.

[Oasis]

good point, but common core is visual only. tactile and verbal are completely left out. The way I do math is only in my mind, so when I have to write it down - and I'm a VERY slow writer - it looks like I'm struggling. Showing work is my complete weakness, so every teacher thinks I'm lazy as well. People like me usually get left out of it.

You're not doing hard enough math if you're doing it all in your head.

Eventually, you will need to write stuff down.

[SetGaming]

This is actually a good method to initially teach kids arithmetic. It's hard to fathom not being able to understand why the fastest algorithms and techniques for doing arithmetic work, but that's the reality for lots of people who had bad math teachers in the early grades. If you teach kids a method that is easy to understand conceptually, they won't feel as uncertain when you teach them the 'normal' way of doing math.

I'd compare this to how most high school calculus classes are run. Students get taught the limit definition of a derivative first, and then after they've learned it they get taught all the various rules and shortcuts for differentiation. Without the conceptual background of knowing how a derivative works, none of those rules make any sense and most students would forget them almost immediately.

Yeah, that sounds like a pretty good way it could work. With 7 years worth of experience with everyday math, all of the representations were very dull and took forever to complete. Just busywork. I guess I'm just way too used to that, instead.

[otto-san]

is it unfair for me to be kinda against using calculators for general use in math class? i understand for things like trig where working them out would involve ridiculous memorisation jobs or massively unnecessary detours but if you just use a calculator, you don't become proficient at actually working the math; you only practice the application. i suppose at higher levels it's focused on the application, but i'm pretty sure there are massive psychological benefits to using your mind instead when possible. i guess it's more of a personal point than anything else.

[SetGaming]

You're not doing hard enough math if you're doing it all in your head.

Eventually, you will need to write stuff down.

I can do quadratics and basic trig in my head. I don't know if that's a good measure at all, but yeah, I'm aware of that I guess. Sorry if I made myself sound, er, egotistical, arrogant?

[SeventhSandwich]

i understand for things like trig where working them out would involve ridiculous memorisation jobs or massively unnecessary detours

You're gonna need to know how to derive the trigonometric ratios from the unit circle for lots of stuff in calculus.