What's this #sydneyseige about?

[dudeman162]

Can we all just agree that we all hate terrorists?

No, we have to use it as an excuse to discriminate against an entire religion.

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[SeventhSandwich]

Derontchi is right when it comes to the fact that there are a lot of Muslim extremists out there today though. We Muslims need to acknowledge the problem and fight it wherever it is. I think you guys are misunderstanding what the guy is saying because he is wording it wrong. You're probably right Derontchi, most of the extremists who are actually causing major problems out there are doing it in the name of Islam, but like Seventh said there is a reason. Can we all just agree that we all hate terrorists?

They're doing it in the name of Islam because it's one of the common connections they can make to unify their cause. It's essentially the same reason why the national socialists united their political cause under white supremacy - because it was something all their supporters could rally under. However, being a Muslim does not make you any more likely to be a terrorist than being white makes you a national socialist. There's not even any point in drawing a correlation between terrorism and Islam because there's no cause to be afraid of Islam. What we should be afraid of is poverty.

[Derontchi]

No, we have to use it as an excuse to discriminate against an entire religion.

Christ! I did not discriminate any religion! It's a valid observation!

I'm going to retire from this thread for the time being. I don't want to ruin relationships with you all and I have repetitively stated my point, and so I've done all I can. I'll be back once this gets back on subject. See ya.

when are you going to address my post?

Whelp never mind then.

Your post doesn't really argue the subject at hand. It sounds to me like you're trying to give the terrorists justification for their actions. I know why they're here.

Derontchi is right when it comes to the fact that there are a lot of Muslim extremists out there today though. We Muslims need to acknowledge the problem and fight it wherever it is. I think you guys are misunderstanding what the guy is saying because he is wording it wrong. You're probably right Derontchi, most of the extremists who are actually causing major problems out there are doing it in the name of Islam, but like Seventh said there is a reason. Can we all just agree that we all hate terrorists?

Yes.

[SeventhSandwich]

Your post doesn't really argue the subject at hand. It sounds to me like you're trying to give the terrorists justification for their actions.

It does argue the subject at hand, and if you think I was justifying terrorism you either didn't read what I wrote or you couldn't understand it.

[Count]

They're doing it in the name of Islam because it's one of the common connections they can make to unify their cause. It's essentially the same reason why the national socialists united their political cause under white supremacy - because it was something all their supporters could rally under. However, being a Muslim does not make you any more likely to be a terrorist than being white makes you a national socialist. There's not even any point in drawing a correlation between terrorism and Islam because there's no cause to be afraid of Islam. What we should be afraid of is poverty.

lol I actually said something just like that a few months back

Self Delete is also a major sin in Islam. Goes to show that those extremists shouldn't even be called Muslims. Anyway, I have a pretty good idea on why this radicalism is so rampant in Muslim countries. Most of these countries have major corruption in their government. Poverty also plagues many of the countries as well. Radical Christian groups in well developed countries such as Europe have a lot to fear if they tried to start up armies and start attacking people. These countries have tons of money, aid, allies, weapons, etc. Extremists cannot start terrorizing anybody, they would quickly lose. In a country like Syria however, many of it's population was already poor and suffering under Al Assad's regime. It's no surprise many people chose to radicalize and join ranks with the terrorists. It's a lot like national socialist Germany. Riddler swooped in to save the day in a bleak time of German history. Terrorist groups are pretty skilled at uniting people against a common enemy, the West. Many preachers belonging to these groups end up in Europe and the USA and begin to gather followers to send to the fighting. These extremists can actually put up a good fight against a crumbling country. People always bring in religion into this subject but to me it's almost entirely political and economical. With money and a good governmental system, peace is much easier to achieve. With poverty and corruption, comes crime and terrorism.

[Harm94]

So are those gun laws working out Australia?

[Derontchi]

Everyone, I am not saying that being a muslim makes you a terrorist or visa versa, I'm saying that all of those terrorists in the headlines twice a week (at least) that you see are muslim extremists. That's it. I never said there was a correlation of being a muslim and being a terrorist. Get it now, Crispy?

[Crispy_]

exactly. next time, don't say all terrorists are muslims, okay? just say what you said now, "all of those terrorists in the headlines twice a week (at least) that you see are muslim extremists." okay?

[SeventhSandwich]

Here's a sobering statistic that should help knock some perspective into people like Derontchi:

The United States collects data on the recruitment numbers of organizations that they think threaten America's national security. They have calculated the number of participants in Islamic terrorist organizations to be 184,000. In comparison with 1.6 billion Muslims worldwide, that means about 0.0115% of them are actual Jihadis.

Now, the total size of the Wehrmacht (the national socialist army to people who don't know history) was around twenty million during the war, and the total population of the world was estimated to be at around 2.3 billion at that time. Which means that if we assumed that every single person in the world at that time was white (which obviously, is not true), then national socialists made up 0.8% of the white population(in reality this figure is much higher because I didn't want to go scour for an actual accurate estimate of how many white people were around in 1939-1945).

That means that if we're going to say that it's alright to call Muslims terrorists because there are lots of terrorists who are Muslims, then it's eighty times more accurate to say that white people are national socialists.

I'm saying that all of those terrorists in the headlines twice a week (at least) that you see are muslim extremists.

Why are you saying that? What is your motivation for stating that fact? People do not announce random statistics out of sheer boredom. What's your agenda here?

[Harm94]

Here's a sobering statistic that should help knock some perspective into people like Derontchi:

The United States collects data on the recruitment numbers of organizations that they think threaten America's national security. They have calculated the number of participants in Islamic terrorist organizations to be 184,000. In comparison with 1.6 billion Muslims worldwide, that means about 0.0115% of them are actual Jihadis.

Now, the total size of the Wehrmacht (the national socialist army to people who don't know history) was around twenty million during the war, and the total population of the world was estimated to be at around 2.3 billion at that time. Which means that if we assumed that every single person in the world at that time was white (which obviously, is not true), then national socialists made up 0.8% of the white population(in reality this figure is much higher because I didn't want to go scour for an actual accurate estimate of how many white people were around in 1939-1945).

That means that if we're going to say that it's alright to call Muslims terrorists because there are lots of terrorists who are Muslims, then it's eight times more accurate to say that white people are national socialists.
Why are you saying that? What is your motivation for stating that fact? People do not announce random statistics out of sheer boredom. What's your agenda here?

The Wehrmacht fell under german government jurisdiction, it consisted of average German and Austrian people, The Waffen SS was separate from the Wehrmacht and consisted of national socialist fanatics.

[SeventhSandwich]

The Wehrmacht fell under german government jurisdiction, it consisted of average German and Austrian people, The Waffen SS was separate from the Wehrmacht and consisted of national socialist fanatics.

In my calculations I treated the entire world population as if it was all white people, so I don't think one or two orders of magnitude on my estimate of the national socialist population is the biggest source of error here. 0.8% is by far a hugely conservative estimate.

[McJob]

I loving love this thread, and I loving love you guys.


Reports are sketchy (the media is as usual posting bullstuff facts, but there are thankfully legit sources floating around since this happened in broad daylight), but basically at about 10AM a Muslim extremist (not associated with CIA, unlikely to be associated with Al-Queada) entered a Lindt Cafe (Lindt being the chocolate; this was a cafe which had some pretty good chocolate snacks and coffee) in Martin Place (one of the most crowded parts of Sydney city and recent hotbed for "terrorist" activity) and took everybody inside as hostages.

Reports say between 12 - 25 people are currently inside. Shortly after taking the hostages, the gunman forced everybody to hold up several Islamic flags which had some "graphic" messages on them proclaiming Islam as the most glorious state, or some bullstuff like that. Australia Federal Police were deployed and a negotiator arrived on scene, but they still haven't been able to get any communication between the two (unsure why).

The "terrorist" has since apparently somehow sent a message to police, stating that there are a number of devices around Sydney which are armed to explode, although that seems to be unconfirmed at this point.

A giant perimeter was set up around Martin Place, and people outdoors have been evacuated. Electricity was cut to a number of buildings, including ones where people are still residing. Several unattended back-packs were found, and they were empty.

Still no resolution to the case, but this is frankly piss-poor as far as drama goes. There's been no deaths or injuries (we know about), just a guy with a gun with a bunch of other people for the past few hours.

I'll keep you guys informed. I probably have to go near this cafe tomorrow, so I might be able to get you some footage. We'll see how the lockdown holds up.

[F3d323]

that is not the real mcjob
its an impostor

[Derontchi]

Welp, the commandos stormed the building. The gunman killed a hostage and then himself. What a waste. He randomly opened fire and wounded several other hostages. Go read the BBC article

[Doughboy]

So are those gun laws working out Australia?

ask them that when your schools stop being shot up