Who killed Mr. Boddy in the study and with what?: the great debate topic™®

[Foxscotch]

People with training who go to firing ranges to go target shooting don't run the risk of injury or death.

yes they do, because they have a lethal weapon in their hand. there are precautions and safety switches and whatever else, but as long as there is a bullet in the weapon it is dangerous
cops, who are definitely trained to use them, still kill people on accident with their guns

The also make less lethal ammo, ammo that was designed not to kill people.

nobody is talking about less-lethal weapons

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[Rally]

yes they do, because they have a lethal weapon in their hand. there are precautions and safety switches and whatever else, but as long as there is a bullet in the weapon it is dangerous

Yeah, no stuff, guns are dangerous because they can injure people. You can injure people with a rock too.
We get it though, a gun is more dangerous than a rock. But why is it 300 million other people's problem that you're a dumbass who can't handle dangerous equipment properly?

If you walk into a automobile factory and start playing around with heavy machinery without the first clue what you're doing, you're probably going to lose an arm. Is that the machine's fault or your fault?

[IkeTheGeneric]

yes they do, because they have a lethal weapon in their hand.

Besides the extremely unlikely event of a discharge (Which, most of the time is caused by firearms that have been improperly tampered, cleaned or made), you do not have to worry about getting shot at a firing range assuming that everyone there has proper safety training and responsibility.

Safety precautions include not pointing the gun at anyone, making several checks to make sure the gun isn't still loaded before handling it and making sure the gun isn't rusted, cracked or broken anywhere.

I will restate my point again since you seem to not be getting it; a firearm held by somebody with proper training and discretion isn't a harm to anyone by nature. There is no reason to outlaw firearms because of improper care and handling of them. There are incredibly better ways of handling the situation than to destroy an entire industry.

[Harm94]

That is less lethal ammo than can be put into a weapon that fires lethal ammo.
Accidents: They happen. There was a SWAT team, highly trained dudes right? Well after a raid one of them tripped over with accidently discharged his shotgun which killed a boy. Even the military forgets up and kills civilians all the time. I can think of several recent incidents where a missile or artillery shell slammed into some guys house.

Even knifes can be dangerous for the same reasons you stated for firearms. I could be trying to cut an orange with dull knife, I apply too much pressure and slips and cuts my finger.

[Foxscotch]

Accidents: They happen. There was a SWAT team, highly trained dudes right? Well after a raid one of them tripped over with accidently discharged his shotgun which killed a boy. Even the military forgets up and kills civilians all the time. I can think of several recent incidents where a missile or artillery shell slammed into some guys house.

yeah. so guns are dangerous, even in trained hands
an unnecessary risk

[Rally]

yeah. so guns are dangerous, even in trained hands
an unnecessary risk

''an unnecessary risk''

So should S.W.A.T. and the military be armed with pool noodles and bubble wrap?

[IkeTheGeneric]

an unnecessary risk

Unnecessary risk, eh? Propose an alternative, then. Just 'removing guns' isn't going to work, neither is straight up outlawing them.

[Foxscotch]

''an unnecessary risk''
So should S.W.A.T. and the military be armed with pool noodles and bubble wrap?

well, that wouldn't be a problem if the other people didn't have them either

[IkeTheGeneric]

well, that wouldn't be a problem if the other people didn't have them either

But other people do, so it's a problem...

[Foxscotch]

But other people do, so it's a problem...

they shouldn't exist at all though

[Harm94]

Uncessary risk? By your logic knives and tools fall under that category as well because they can cause self harm if operated improperly or operated by an inexperienced user.

well, that wouldn't be a problem if the other people didn't have them either

There are plently of countries that have armed police forced despite the fact that they are banned. Even in mainland Europe patrol officers carry a weapon.

they shouldn't exist at all though

blame the Chinese for inventing gunpowder and the Turks introducing firearms into Europe then.

[Rally]

well, that wouldn't be a problem if the other people didn't have them either

The conditions in which a SWAT operative uses a shotgun and how any other gun owner in the world uses a shotgun are unfathomably different. Police and SWAT, despite intensive training, are still more prone to a firearm mishap than other situations because the situations in which Police and SWAT use guns are often in intensive, stressful and rapid circumstances which they are obligated to be involved in. It's a dangerous line of work, this stuff happens. Steel mill workers also end up getting injured from time to time despite intensive training because it's their job to constantly be in dangerous situations.

Whereas a gun range, you're just pointing the loving thing in a straight line in a room that's engineered to be safe. Whereas in a home defense situation, the vast majority of the time the gun owner doesn't even need to let off a shot. Whereas in a hunting situation, the pace is slow and people take time and effort to look out for each other. Whereas in a recreational situation, I mean, do I have to keep going?

[IkeTheGeneric]

they shouldn't exist at all though

I don't think you realize just how important the creation of firearms are.

[Ipquarx]

they shouldn't exist at all though

they'd exist in the hands of criminals whether or not they were ever legalized in the first place, and it was inevitable that they would exist, even if the big companies never made the technology someone else would have

[Foxscotch]

I don't think you realize just how important the creation of firearms are.

we wouldn't have needed them without war, and without war we'd be a lot better off

The conditions in which a SWAT operative uses a shotgun and how any other gun owner in the world uses a shotgun are unfathomably different.

you're just as likely to trip and fall as a police officer

they'd exist in the hands of criminals whether or not they were ever legalized in the first place, and it was inevitable that they would exist, even if the big companies never made the technology someone else would have

so, because a few criminals would have a crude version of something similar to modern guns anyway, we might as well just give them all easy access to very effective ones?