Archipelago – Late Summer, 1827 – New Moderator Position Open

[CypherX]

Finta and Navapex pass the Duma. The Orgburo Navy receives the extra resources it needs and plans the construction of five new Ships of the Line, and eight new Man-o-War's. The island to the south of Vlast has been claimed. Three regiments of infantry and one regiment of light cavalry are sent to assume control. They are sent alongside military engineers.

I think you're confusing ship classes.

Man o' War and Ship-of-the-line are effectively the same class, with the man o' war being a British expression referring to larger second or first rate ships-of-the-line. Ships-of-the-line are typically 46 guns and up, though "fourth rate" class could be disputed. Anything lower is typically a frigate or a sloop. First rates are usually around 80-90 guns up to around 130 at the maximum, with 3 or more decks, second rates being 80-90 with 2 or, in some cases, a small third deck, third rates being 64-80 guns on two decks, and the "fourth rate" was a ship with 46ish to 64 guns on a single deck. This is a loose definition and skips a lot of points, but that's the general outline.

Hope this helps.

[Ad Bot]

[Mr. Hurricane]

I looked into it. Here's what's going into the navy.

12 Second gun rates
20 Third gun rates
~50 Fourth gun rates and smaller.

Three second guns are under construction, as are five thirds and about a dozen fourths.

[Juncoph]

i'm calling bullstuff on the fact that my full assault with more than 3.5 million loving units when meanwhile tacza was focused on fighting kyrev only resulted in gaining some land and yet there are equal, heavy losses on both sides

seriously what is this? and then i get labour riots or what ever even though tacza apparently also has over 3.5 million able bodied men properly geared and ready to defend, not including those fighting kyrev? and they aren't getting any riots?

this recently formed tribal confederation has the logistical strength to pull all this stuff off?

IIRC you also pulled this type of stuff on my obalei offensive when i had ~700 thousand conscripts as its backbone. overwhelmed by numbers when they only had, like, 80k in reinforcements.

and don't say "the people in tacza were civilians defending their land". that's very possible, except peasants usually only have stuff like knives and pitchforks. you mean to tell me knives and pitchforks can beat muskets and bayonets?


The Pope says that he bears a message from God to the citizens of the UEK: While it is true that times are dark, we must pull through. God is testing us, and we must not falter against this confederation.

[Badger]

wait are you using like half your nation on an attack?

that pulls away from your economy big time you know right

[SWAT One]

Misworded, goddamnit.

I mentioned that the Obalei suffered economically, but I meant the Tazcowa.

Furthermore, I said that they had the same technology, but poor organization.  The only thing holding them is numbers, which is being compromised quickly.  They have tradition of training men at basic levels in preparation for conscription should the need arise.  The army in peacetime is a high number, though active, continual service doesn't fully exist unless the need arises.  In extended peacetime, retirement or leave may be more common, though in wartime, stuff occurs quickly.  Additionally, the provision for the natives having similar technology was given on page 1.  The information on military workings was laid out on page 3 before edits in the NPC post.

And may I even ask how conscripted soldiers were adequately trained for this event?  MILLIONS conscripts would be far too much for your military to bear considering processing, training, conditioning, equipping, deploying, etc.  Suddenly ripping 3.5 million men from their homes and lives of bearing a family's welfare on their shoulders is a terrible idea through and through.  The military would be in shambles from an influx of conscripts that they couldn't take all at once in a short time.  Effectively putting said conscripts into battle after being rushed through training would spell disaster for military operations and morale.  I believe the battle results were generous for you considering that.  Bad news from the front, combined with strain on arms manufacturers to make huge weapons caches within months is straining, forcing them to be overworked with rushed production.  This also forces the quick extraction of resources, which would be difficult because methods for this do not exist and because transportation at this time is very limited.  In a mountainous region in which UEK resides, transportation would be a realistic and continual concern.  Furthermore, with the retraction of a significant portion of your labor force, the market either collapses, or the economy becomes slaves to a foreign market.  Since the trade route to the only nation you are trading with is cut off, this would result in the former.  With sudden government spending on war assets, the government both goes bankrupt, and the economy is riddled with inflation, causing steep reductions in the value of the currency.  This not only deals with the government's budget, but also cuts funding from police and peacekeeping forces.  Since they are no longer being paid, they will not obey.  Now that the people see that there is no balance the nation can give, it would be reasonable to assume that they'd take matters into their own hands.  Like honestly I am surprised by this foolishness to begin with.  If you want to raise an issue with realism I request that you answer to this.

[Juncoph]

tl;dr you only noted that the surrounding tribes had similar tech and not a similar population and you act surprised when i pull a 3.5 million army out of my ass in response to you pulling three loving confederations out of your ass

seriously if the tribes were apparently just as loving capable as the player nations don't you think it'd be a good idea to actually note them and their civs at the beginning instead of just saying "watch out for tribes!11!!!"

[Badger]

Espovon explores the north and western isles

After exploration they are both claimed - given they don't encounter any large groups of people there

[CypherX]

Welp, I think I'll make a wordwall about this too. No promises that it'll be entirely on point, I'm still kind of sleepy.

I think first I would like to brown townyse the political makeup of the three confederations surrounding us. You had mentioned before that they were similar to the German Confederation, which was made up of lots of small states, who were constantly bickering and looking to expand their own lots in life. It would be reasonable to assume that our three confederations are looking to do the same.

Now, I think what is throwing me, at least, for a loop is that the entities that make up the Confederation are called "tribes", yet they exist in the first world. For me, it makes me assume that they are smaller and less organized than perhaps a citystate or territory or simply another nation.

I think I'll elaborate a little further on what I would think these Confederations would be doing; many of them share separate interests, and really they would only be held together by their supposed foreign invaders. After Obalei surrendered, you have got to imagine that the governing bodies for both confederations would have gone into turmoil; they had just lost 33% of their support, and now the UEK would be able to turn their full attention to fighting them. Not only that, but especially for the Tacz, they would be trapped in a two front war. The clear option, and the option they took, would be to request peace, obviously. How would that decision affect the governing bodies? I'm sure many would be scared of further war, or perhaps angry that other tribes would have even suggested an end to the fighting.

Now imagine what happens when their peace offer is declined and a new offer is proposed; annexation, but with respect to the current governing establishments, allowing those in power before to remain, or total annihilation and the forced annexation and replacement governments. What would the two councils think now? A large portion of them had wanted peace, and the offer mentions that. Accepting peace would allow them to remain with all the power they had before, only having to accept the Kyrevan king and his laws and money. I'm not assuming that all of the tribes that make up this confederation would agree, but I would assume that at least a few would, and if not that, at least some of them would become neutral, similar to what happened in the Americas during French and British colonization.

My suggested result: Several tribes from Noaste and Tacz leave the Confederation and either become neutral or side with the UEK or Kyrev in the conflict.


I'd like to discuss the UEK's internal situation as well. Now, don't get me wrong; they have just devoted an enormous portion of their able bodied men to a conflict, and that would have repercussions at home. Additionally, there would be problems with supplying them all with muskets, for example; HOWEVER, I think we're skipping over a couple important factors that would influence this. For one, many of these men lived in the mountains or around them as frontiersmen; it could be assumed that many had their own muskets or weapons. Additionally, at this time a majority of a nation's populace would be farmers; if I remember correctly, we're approaching winter, so most if not all crops would be harvested. While I'm not saying that it would have no effects, most of the farmers would be able to leave without much issue. Now, they would also be pulled from the industrial and skilled trades market, which would be partially crippled until these men returned home. However, at this time the industrial market is not nearly as important enough at this time to cripple an entire nation, and the skilled trades market could be reasonably assumed to remain whimpering at the very least. I'm not debating the fact that this would make the UEK's population as a whole very unhappy, but nation-wide revolts only a few weeks to a month or two after they are conscripted is unlikely in my mind.

My suggested result: UEK's internal strife grows, and the longer that troops are kept away from home, the larger the strife will become, eventually turning into full scale revolt.

This is all speculation, of course. Do what you will, but this is my opinion.

[Mr. Hurricane]

Vlast lays claim to the surrounding lands once again, and begins taking territory.

[Plethora]

Construction on the naval outpost on the island to the southeast which has yet to be marked as Teleri on the main map continues.  Construction of shipyards in Weisstadt begins.

Exploratory vessels are sent out to the South and East to establish contact and hopefully open up trade with the peoples there.

[SWAT One]

I think Cypher gave a proper brown townysis, and deserves acknowledgement.  However, I was more or less talking about the regions sharing a German Confederation antebellum, but more or less united against threat, sort of what happened to Colonial America antebellum.

I propose these results:

1.  The Tacz fail, and are conquered, with territory to be divided up.  They are more a proud race willing to sacrifice all for their nation, so a result like this would be reasonable.  All assets and liabilities of the region go into its divisions and shares.

2.  The Noaste request application as a puppet state to Kyrev following the defeat of their navy (Result that the Noaste navy fails, but due to a superior position, they were able to put significant damage on the Kyrevian fleet.) rather than annexation in order to preserve their culture and most of their inner workings, but give up their rights to autonomy and partial self-governance.  Their ideal, however, would be to be independent and just keep their lands.

3.  The Tacz suffer significant losses and enter a period of food shortage, and many die in the winter.

4.  The UEK, with the loss of much of its labor force, manages to go into a dip phase, where the economy is weakened by the loss of a competitive market for around 10 years.  The demand however shifts to certain manufacturers, and the upper classes grow for a small portion of the population.  Military organization requires overhaul.  This instills a spirit of competition that will fluidly lead into industrialization later in the century.

5.  Kyrev suffers loss of a small portion of its labor forces and poverty rises slightly in cities.  Military reorganization would be essential to further campaigns.

6.  I will provide more clear guidelines on what NPCs and powers are out there.


Burellis approves the trade proposal by Doven.  Ships are sent immediately to discuss specific trade items.

[Juncoph]

wait so are we cutting to these results or are these projected results if we go through with what we've been doing until the wars eventually end

[SWAT One]

I'm saying that Cypher has provided a good brown townysis, and it would be more appropriate to jump to them rather than lead into them because not only does his brown townysis tackle realistic results, but also sets up conditions that were not properly brown townyzed going into the situation.  A factor of causation wouldn't line up if it were a projected result, so I am trying to make an attempt to take the current situation and trying to align it to his brown townysis.  Of course, it will still be roleplayed out if you would prefer.

And I must say I am truly sorry for providing poor details going into this.

[Juncoph]

and i'm sorry for getting pissy

[SWAT One]

Understandable.  I hate being confused, too.

I will be discussing with Plethora some official terms for colonizing and expansion later, along with foreign demographics.  I hate to limit y'all, but I would appreciate if everyone could hold off on larger expansion moves until this is finalized.

Sorry for the inconvenience.