Letter from Ex-Waffen SS member to Spielberg referencing Saving Private Ryan.

[Col. Derontchi]

simple

i never said all german soldiers were automatically tribal and anti-jewish. strawman harder.

You said that the first reason was a lie. I assumed you meant that all German soldiers were concerned with what race/religion the enemy was.

[Ad Bot]

[blockguy™]

i didn't know that 90 year old men could run tumblr accounts

[Camel]

You said that the first reason was a lie. I assumed you meant that all German soldiers were concerned with what race/religion the enemy was.

but im sure a lot of them believed what they were told. propaganda and patriotism can make you do some terrible things

[Col. Derontchi]

but im sure a lot of them believed what they were told. propaganda and patriotism can make you do some terrible things

But is that the same as really believing it? It wasn't just anti-Semitic propaganda, but also German pride propaganda. It was more "the Germans are under attack by the Jews" and less "the Jews are bad". It may not sound like much of a difference at first, but the two are significantly different. They didn't do it to be anti-Jew, they did it to be pro-Germany.

[Biostorm]

i didn't know that 90 year old men could run tumblr accounts

The letter has been around long before this Tumblr account, meaning it's not run by the Ex-SS member, but by some random national socialist sympathizer.

[blockguy™]

The letter has been around long before this Tumblr account, meaning it's not run by the Ex-SS member, but by some random national socialist sympathizer.

oh

[IkeTheGeneric]

I assumed

That's where you went wrong

[Col. Derontchi]

That's where you went wrong

What where did you come from

Elaborate a little?

[IkeTheGeneric]

Elaborate a little?

You assumed he meant that all German soldiers were concerned with what race/religion the enemy was.

He didn't say it. He didn't imply it. You assumed it.

[ZombiLoin]

You said that the first reason was a lie. I assumed you meant that all German soldiers were concerned with what race/religion the enemy was.

I didn't say all, what I mean is that a great deal of German soldiers were vehemently tribal, or were, at the very least, indoctrinated by national socialist tribal policy. For example, for the official order Treatment of offences committed by members of the military, two things are mentioned

For cruelties committed by members of the military and their retinue against enemy civilians, there is no [threat of] prosecution; the same holds true if the offense is simultaneously a military crime or offense.

that is literally a carte-blanche to do whatever you want to the civilian population, no prosecution for war-crimes, no court-martial

In the assessment of such acts, in each proceeding, it must be taken into consideration the collapse in 1918, the later period of suffering of the German nation and the battle against National Socialism with countless sacrifices of blood were crucial to reduce Bolshevism’s influence and that no German has forgotten this.

oh hey, look, in this military order to the wehrmact there is a definite reference to losing the first world war, and a political slant was introduced.

additional, general field marshall von reichenau order his troops (the entire sixth army) that

...The most important objective of this campaign against the Jewish-Bolshevik system is the complete destruction of its sources of power and the extermination of the Asiatic influence in European civilization. ... In this eastern theatre, the soldier is not only a man fighting in accordance with the rules of the art of war, but also the ruthless standard bearer of a national conception. ... For this reason the soldier must learn fully to appreciate the necessity for the severe but just retribution that must be meted out to the subhuman species of Jewry. ...

that seems very... tribal and anti-semitic, especially coming from a man who was practically second to Riddler in the chain of command at the time. remember, this was a very popular general who commanded the respect of his men. if his men respected and emulated him, perhaps they might've picked up a little of what he thought.

citations:
http://users.clas.ufl.edu/ggiles/barbaros.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severity_Order

[Twerky]

At least this is interesting to read, way better than the usual tumblr crap we get linked.

[Col. Derontchi]

Of course that is not to say that no soldiers were tribal. There were those that actually believed the Jews were a problem, but as someone earlier said, the youth that signed up to fight were attracted by their sense of German nationalism that the army provided, not necessarily racism. Chances are, he signed up not to exterminate the Jews, but to defend his country.

[ZombiLoin]

Of course that is not to say that no soldiers were tribal. There were those that actually believed the Jews were a problem, but as someone earlier said, the youth that signed up to fight were attracted by their sense of German nationalism that the army provided, not necessarily racism. Chances are, he signed up not to exterminate the Jews, but to defend his country.

the two are one and the same. national socialist doctrine said that jews and bolsheviks were the ones who were attacking germany, and as von reichenau said,

"The most important objective of this campaign against the Jewish-Bolshevik system is the complete destruction of its sources of power and the extermination of the Asiatic influence in European civilization."

this was an official order from the top general on the eastern front. there's no way that it could be taken any other way (because it's a loving military order, lol). sure, unofficially german soldiers may not be convinced of this ideology. but officially, they were obliged to through explicit military orders that used racism and anti-semitism as justification.

[Col. Derontchi]

the two are one and the same. national socialist doctrine said that jews and bolsheviks were the ones who were attacking germany, and as von reichenau said,

"The most important objective of this campaign against the Jewish-Bolshevik system is the complete destruction of its sources of power and the extermination of the Asiatic influence in European civilization."

this was an official order from the top general on the eastern front. there's no way that it could be taken any other way (because it's a loving military order, lol). sure, unofficially german soldiers may not be convinced of this ideology. but officially, they were obliged to through explicit military orders that used racism and anti-semitism as justification.

Yes, and that order made him a war criminal, according to his Wikipedia biography page. Again, there is a difference between what the orders were and what the soldiers believed. You're practically saying, "one guy gave the order, therefore most national socialists were tribal." That logic doesn't really work. Again, we're not talking about what the soldiers were told, and what they believed. Therefore, the rest of your argument is irrelevant in this case.

[ZombiLoin]

Yes, and that order made him a war criminal, according to his Wikipedia biography page. Again, there is a difference between what the orders were and what the soldiers believed. You're practically saying, "one guy gave the order, therefore most national socialists were tribal." That logic doesn't really work. Again, we're not talking about what the soldiers were told, and what they believed. Therefore, the rest of your argument is irrelevant in this case.

it's not what they believed, it's that "protecting germany" in the way national socialist propaganda explained it is inherently tribal. if they, as you say, joined out a sense of protecting their country, and if "protecting their country" as espoused by the national socialist was inherently tribal, wouldn't that make the soldiers tribal? sure, you could say that the soldiers were ignorant/didn't regard poles, russians, jews, or the myriad other groups the massacred human, but that doesn't mean they aren't tribal.