Tier+Tactical discussion and revival ideas

[Gumba Jonny]

LINKS:
TIER+TACTICAL 2
FROG'S WEAPONRY

Remember Ostinyo's Nuketown Domination?

I'm going to flat out say that this server was one of the best ever hosted. Period. It's not even me having a nostalgia boner. This was some of the most fun I've ever had playing a game. It was an extremely hectic game booming with crazy weapons with not only a weapon buying system but a straight-up upgrading system, to promote weapon variety and reward patient players who could still murder masses using sub-par weapons. In four words: IT WAS THE stuff
The fact that this server used Tier+Tactical (and Frog's Weaponry, which is a spinoff expansion anyway) was INTEGRAL to the experience. No other set of weapons would have fit better.

Servers like this were, even then, few and far between. Don't get me wrong. Servers weren't necessarily 100% le-wrong-generation better back then, but nowadays the choice of weapons has definitely taken a big change that I think most would agree is pretty bad. People have always mixed weapon packs, but it's gotten extreme with the popularity of different packs today. We see people mixing Vulpine Vitality weapons, the BF3 pack, duelling weapons, and a bunch of other packs together like it's no big deal. These weapon packs might be flashy or realistic or just have a lot of weapons, but what they seriously lack is variety and fun - yes, duelling weapons are just inherently flawed mechanically, even though they're pretty unique and well-done. Blockland allows you to do all these things with weapons easily, yet people opt for straightforward weapons that get pretty gross - like the BF3 pack with its borderline un-playability and dear loving god, this thing. All of the weapons in these packs just shoot normal bullets and reload. The bullets don't do anything other than damage and maybe shake your screen a little bit. Yet, people prefer these over stuff like the loving Tier+Tactical magnum which shoots a goddamn tank shell into people's faces. That thing alone has so much gameplay value to it just because of the size of the bullet and the critical headshots.

You guys might know that I make models and weapon add-ons. It's something I do for fun on my free time, sometimes aimlessly making models that I know I won't ever use but just make for the hell of it. Making an expansion to Tier+Tactical has been something I've always wanted to do, but I'm the type of person who can't really stay dedicated to a project if it's not completely thought out when I'm making it or if it becomes a drag. That's not to say I haven't completed things before. The Karbini Mk. 16 (link) took a lot of time to figure out, and although I was losing hope, I ended up finishing it exactly how I wanted it to behave, except for this double grenade explosion thing but we don't talk about that. I feel like if I have everything thought out, I could finish a single weapon pack even at the scale of Frog's.

I want you guys to share ideas on what I (or anyone else who might like Tier+Tactical as much as I do) could make to add onto the weapon pack and hopefully bring it back to popularity. I also know that a lot of you guys also don't like the weapon pack, so you could share what you don't like about it. For ideas, I'm talking about weapon types that you think would fit in and their mechanics. I'm by no means an expert when it comes to coding, but I've found that I can make a lot of stuff work with what knowledge I have so the ambition on those ideas should have no bounds.

I actually already have some weapon ideas that I haven't fully developed into something I'd like, but being that I already have models for some of these weapon types I feel I'd might as well share:

• The Heavy Rifle. It fires tank-shell sized projectiles with a shotgun explosion radius. It is a slow full-auto that can headshot, which makes it range from a 5 to 3 hit kill. It has a first-shot accuracy increase as well. The magazine size is small, the base model having 18, and the reload speed is rather slow.

The other one is a heavy machinegun, which I might post later.

Anyway, let me know what you guys think!

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[DataProxy]

Technically, you have made weapons on the scale of Frogs. You just made them seperately, and without T+T's intricate ammo systems. Manifest Destiny, Dual Communism, just to name a few. Although they maybe just joke weapons, they do have the same fluidity and level satisfaction that T+T and Frogs give. Though telling you to repackage them would be very stupid, I do suggest expanding on that skill. Continue making utterly ridiculous guns that literally make my day when I want to send my neighbor back home to their mother in a box.

In the meantime here are some of my suggestions:

Major Leaguer - Basically, it's a baseball shooter. Projectiles are able to ricochet off walls until they slow down and disappear. Balls deal moderate damage that gradually decreases after a ricochet. Gun's automatic fire rate should be fairly slow, and balls should be big enough to be seen by players. Reload time is moderate, and the clip should hold only 15 balls before reloading.

Triple Trouble - A strong sniper rifle with a long reload, holds only 9 shots to a clip, and very high damage output and recoil. The first shot is a raycast that deals high damage, even for a crit, but the other two shots are normal projectiles with medium-high damage that have decent-ish accuracy at a far distance. All rounds should deal criticals on a headshot.

[Legodude77]

We need a gun that shoots guns, which then explode into knifes like the frag grenade.

[gr8dayseth]

Holy stuff someone who has the same opinion with mine on t+t and frog's.
PC's restarting for updates soon so I'll post some ideas later.

[Gumba Jonny]

This is what I like. Thank you.
For one, I did not make, let alone even help plan, the Dual Communism. Darksaber made that randomly after I released the Manifest Destiny. I could see why you thought so though, lol.
And while crazy single weapons have been my thing for a while, I just want to make a pack of semi-normal weapons that aren't extreme just to fit in with a tier+tactical setting. I really like the Triple Trouble idea though, that could work in as a Sniper Rifle skin...

[Path]

I'm currently working on a tier+tactical themed/modern ww2 pack if its of any relevance.

[gr8dayseth]

I forgot what idea I had while the computer updated, woops.
But then I remembered that I made some ideas years ago, back then I had them in mind with working with the default style weaponry instead of T+T, but I re-wrote it so it fits better and added reloading and ammo. And of course you can change the numbers to have it more reasonable and all that jazz cause I'm not the best at balancing things that haven't been made yet. Most of these are pretty gimmicky and idk if that's the kinda thing you're looking for but here ya go:

1. Ball Thrower
Looks like a standard pistol that has a cork in the barrel, and with a thing that kinda looks like a paintball magazineidk what it's called shut up but a bit bigger. On the side it has a rotating spin thing that looks a bit like one of those wind measures, that's what throws the balls.

It needs to spin up before it can fire.
The only sound it makes is a throwing sound.
The balls bounce off of things.
It does around 20 damage each.
Fires about 5 per second.
Has 15 balls of ammunition before you gotta reload.
Reloading time takes a few seconds.


2. Laser Gun
Also looks like a pistol, but with a big battery below its handle with red wires connecting the ends of the battery to the inside of the gun where the magazine would be.

It fires a constant laser beam.
Does around 50 damage per second.
Hold it down to keep the laser beam constant.
Possibly instead of reloading it's a cool-down system.
Needs to recharge/reload after say 3 seconds of constant firing.
Reloading is basically just changing the battery and takes a short amount of time.


3. Laser Frag Grenade
Looks like a blue rounded square basically.

Works like a frag grenade.
But explodes into lasers.
Lasers not affected by gravity.
Lasers bounce off stuff.
If you're basing it off of T+T's grenades instead of Frog's, maybe by default 3 would be how much you'd have.


4. Throwable Sticky Grenade [Apparently the stick grenades in T+T got an update at some point and are sticky, but you could still make this if you wanna]
Looks like a red circle with spikes on all sides.
Even on the side that the hand's on.

And that explains why that for as long as you hold it, -5 health per second.
Also sticks to stuff.
Works like Stick grenade.
Maybe just 1 of these in the style of Frog's and able to grab multiple.


5. Boomerang Launcher
Looks like a long pistol, but with a barrel shaped like a backwards D

iirc, I remember someone saying boomerangs are possible.
Anyway, shoots boomerangs that come back to you, unless it hits something or someone.
Does about 40 damage.
Possibly if it doesn't come back to you it takes away from your ammo, or you lose the ammo when you fire it but get it back if it comes back to you.
1 ammo before you need to reload.
Reload time takes a while.


6. Anti-Gravity Rocket L. (If this isn't possible, make it work like the beggar's bazooka in TF2.)
Looks kinda like a Javelin, but with a clear spot near the front. It's hard to explain. :I

Rockets go up.
And/or
Implosions instead of explosions.
1 ammo if you're going for the anti-gravity thing, but 3 if BB.
Reloading takes a while if you're going for the AG, BB one you charge to reload.


7. Light Rocket L.
Looks like a short version of the Black Box in TF2.

Shoots rockets faster.
Rockets go faster.
Small explosion and damage.
9 ammo.
Reloading takes a while.


8. Throwable Rocket (This was just a random idea lol) [Already made since I made this list, and it kinda just acts like the impact grenade in frog's anyways]


9. Ice Gun
Looks like a slightly buffed up pistol, but has a barrel that is made of ice. Or the whole thing is. Just do whatever tbh.

Does little damage (-10)
Bullets slow down player for half a second.
15 ammo.
Reloading takes a bit.


10. Bouncy Grenade
Looks like the pinball projectile with a pin on it or something.

Works like Conc. Grenade.
Bounces all over the place until it explodes after a few seconds, maybe 3.
Maybe a slightly smaller explosion.
If you're doing it T+T style, 5 because who wouldn't just want to spam these all over the place.

[Spartan224]

Why not add better SFX for the weaponry?

[Gumba Jonny]

Why not add better SFX for the weaponry?

I think they're fine and fitting. I really couldn't make better sounds anyway.


gr8dayseth: Thanks for the input. Most of those are a bit too gimmicky for my liking, but I like the laser weapons. The WH40K pack has decent laser weapons (although nobody ever enables ammo for them any more) but I feel like I could do them better. That's something I'd definitely consider.
I love the constant laser beam idea. I'm not sure if you play Advanced Warfare, but there's a laser weapon in the game that works exactly like that. Apparently, rather than firing 60 hitscans a second, it just has a constant single hitscan that checks every frame/tick to see what it's hitting and to give damage if it hits a player. It also changes its spread every tick, so it has an aspect of inaccuracy to it. I'm not sure if developing a system like that in Blockland is really any better than just firing a raycast every tick (every 33ms), but that's definitely something that I would make for a laser gun pack.
For these laser guns, I'd imagine that they'd overheat but not have magazines, so they feed directly from the ammo source. I like that better than reloading for them. What do you think?

[gr8dayseth]

Oh yeah I definitely like the overheating idea more, especially since there's not many if any at all weapons here that do that.

The WH40K pack has decent laser weapons (although nobody ever enables ammo for them any more)

Wait you can do that? :o

[Gumba Jonny]

Yeah, all you need is Tier 1 and RTB prefs! But I guess everyone forgot that the WH40K pack was a T+T spinoff then...

[Conan]

tier tactical is really hard to write/mod for cause bushido has some really stuff-tier file organization skills, despite his god-tier style and balancing.

it would be better to pull out T+T tier 1 (and more, i guess, if you felt up to it) and reorganize it (which involves code rewrite) so its more clear for modders who want to build off of it.

[Bushido]

its probably an even better idea to just rewrite everything from scratch

t+t's actual reload scripts are really obsolete and there are things out there floating around (jack noir's hl2 weapons pack?) with ammo systems you can scavenge to make something better

or moreover use the system from this http://forum.blockland.us/index.php?topic=288799.msg8727554#msg8727554

[SWAT One]

or moreover use the system from this http://forum.blockland.us/index.php?topic=288799.msg8727554#msg8727554

So if, say, everything was ported over to this system (or format), it would function optimally?

[Bushido]

better, at least