Author Topic: Each generation of children seem to get worse each time.  (Read 9332 times)

a ludicrous amount of effective ways to be a parent
I'm gonna be that guy and ask you to state a few

???????????? how is having your ass smacked as a preschool/elementary school kid remotely comfortable
that's what he's saying, aim for uncomfortable instead of painful

if the kid doesn't know why they screwed up, you're just going to end up teaching them how to avoid getting caught

the idea of positive punishment is just introducing something undesirable to discourage behaviour. it psychologically doesn't have to be physical abuse; this could be plenty of other things. it's just that physical abuse is a lot easier. but everyone is different, and different punishments will affect people differently.

some brief relevant reading:
http://bcotb.com/the-difference-between-positivenegative-reinforcement-and-positivenegative-punishment/

you're just going to end up teaching them how to avoid getting caught
535 sodas stolen and counting and they're none the wiser

that's what he's saying, aim for uncomfortable instead of painful
This lol.

???????????? how is having your ass smacked as a preschool/elementary school kid remotely comfortable
As a kid, and I stress this. As a kid, could you ever stomach the "tough but loving" mentality a lot of unknowledged parents love to regurgitate over and over again? Sure, you're grown up now and you'll accept it as fine because a) they were your parents and they were right, b) they're not spanking you anymore so you probably don't really hate them as much, if at all.

I'm not trying to be cynical here but I'm annoyed by this perspective, because there are a ludicrous amount of effective ways to be a parent than inflicting pain upon your child, or otherwise just making them see you as an starfish, if not a monster.
I understand that, as a kid, it is unlikely that you'll "get it." I didn't. But there is no denying that it caused me to grow and become a better person over time. I thought back on it as I grew able to understand it. At that point, it was just another experience, and we learn very well from our experiences, even if it's not in the present. However, as I said in this post:
Eventually, I sincerely hope some of you come to realize that every person is different. As such, different forms of punishment will be required from individual to individual. Blanket statements have never worked and will never work in situations like these. For some kids, a firm spank works better than timeout, but for others, the reverse might be true. The point of punishment is to change the child's behavior through negative reinforcement (discouraging bad behavior). Obviously, this does not mean traumatizing your child by beating them senseless, but it is also a stretch to call spankings "abusive." Punishment must be unenjoyable for it to work.

However, positive reinforcement (encouraging good behavior) is something else that should be considered. It works especially well with young children, and helps promote a good, firm foundation for them. There has to be a balance between the two; too much of the negative incites bad moods, attitudes, and low expectations, whereas too much of the positive will produce a person who expects too much and is unfit for the reality of the world.
...you gotta know your kid. Blanket statements simply DO NOT WORK. Yes, spanking DOES in fact work on some kids - asking me to deny that is asking me to deny part of my childhood. But I won't spout the lie that all parents should do it to all kids.

As a parent, if you do not know your child and make an effort to understand them personally, then you are failing in your parental duty.

spanking definitely works in moderation, saying it would never actually work is absurd, people just disagree about whether they think it's right to do it.

it's all fine and good until it awakens their inner special interestes

I'm gonna be that guy and ask you to state a few
I saw that coming, and that's fair.

To me, it really depends because the subjectively "best" thing to do always differs case to case. Parenting is hard, which is why it's easy to just yell at your kid so they'll do the right thing just out of fear that if they don't, you'll forget their stuff up. You can treat your kids however you want because you're their parent, and its your household, but the psychological (and physical) well-being of the child should be taken into account here.

The root of a lot of problems is the lack of human interaction, which is a good reason why kids turn to technology, because talking with people across the world fills that void to some level. It's the reason why anyone would spend a good lot of their time on social media. Even introverted people, we all just have an inherent need to feel connected. Whenever you can, you should always talk to your child, act down-to-earth with them. Try to care a little and extend a helping, caring hand if it seems as though something's bothering them.

Along with that, if you forget up and make them cry, or if you're wrong about something and you know you are yet you don't want to falter your authority: just admit you're wrong for forget's sake. Changing views are what moves us forward. Views set in stone are the reason why the Republican party still exists. Stay open minded and accepting to new information and concepts, especially if they relate to parenting in general.

But we live in a world where some of this can't really be helped. You're in a middle to lower class family, and you can't really afford to go on vacation that often. On top of that, you can't spend as much time with your kids as you might want to because you're working all the damn time. The thing to remember here is, your kids love you and respect you. You're the one that helped to bring them into this world, or, otherwise, the one that helped them to grow into who they are at that point in time. Kids are stupid and they won't ever understand all the reasons why they can't have two kit-kat bars at the movies instead of one, but they can feel, and more importantly, grow. Having patience and confidence with your children is a big part of it as well, because if you don't trust them, why in god's name would they ever trust you?

Just remember that kids are more than just kids, they're people. They're human beings. View the world through their eyes, and try to understand their limited thought process and narrow view when it comes to interpreting the world around them.

that's what he's saying, aim for uncomfortable instead of painful
Ah, my b. Misread, thought he said comfortable instead.

This lol.
I understand that, as a kid, it is unlikely that you'll "get it." I didn't. But there is no denying that it caused me to grow and become a better person over time. I thought back on it as I grew able to understand it. At that point, it was just another experience, and we learn very well from our experiences, even if it's not in the present. However, as I said in this post:...you gotta know your kid. Blanket statements simply DO NOT WORK. Yes, spanking DOES in fact work on some kids - asking me to deny that is asking me to deny part of my childhood. But I won't spout the lie that all parents should do it to all kids.

As a parent, if you do not know your child and make an effort to understand them personally, then you are failing in your parental duty.
There's no debate in the fact that spanking works. The issue is whether or not it should be done at all.

It shouldn't. I wouldn't want it done to me, and I wouldn't do it to anyone else. That should be the bottom line, and I'm surprised it isn't.

There's no debate in the fact that spanking works. The issue is whether or not it should be done at all.

It shouldn't. I wouldn't want it done to me, and I wouldn't do it to anyone else. That should be the bottom line, and I'm surprised it isn't.
Ok, so if you agree it works - and multiple people, me and my brother included, are grateful that we experienced it, and have experienced no negative side effects - then why would you say it shouldn't be done at all? In this specific scenario, is there a valid reason it should not be done? "Because it's wrong" is not a reason, as I'm sure you're aware.

The golden rule:
I wouldn't want it done to me, and I wouldn't do it to anyone else. That should be the bottom line, and I'm surprised it isn't.

"because it's wrong" obviously doesn't say much

pretty sure the argument is more accurately "physically abusing your own child is strange to me and i would rather not intentionally cause pain to someone"

the practical issues with spanking mostly only occur when used abusively or wrongly. it's not an end-all solution, it's a means to an end and if it's just used out of convenience it won't be effective. no punishment is effective without context or structure. learning is cumulative, and there are different methods of punishment or reinforcement that can be just as effective if used with proper attention and consistency. but again, the issue with spanking specifically rests entirely in simple moral concerns about the use of physical force against a child.

The golden rule:
The golden rule cannot be applied in cases of punishment, though. The point of punishment is to do something to someone that they don't want done to them to discourage behavior. I might consider this to be a bit more viable if you were talking about the punishment of a reasonable adult, but we're talking kids here, and let's be honest, none of them are going to want to be punished in any fashion.

"because it's wrong" obviously doesn't say much

pretty sure the argument is more accurately "physically abusing your own child is strange to me and i would rather not intentionally cause pain to someone"

the practical issues with spanking mostly only occur when used abusively or wrongly. it's not an end-all solution, it's a means to an end and if it's just used out of convenience it won't be effective. no punishment is effective without context or structure. learning is cumulative, and there are different methods of punishment or reinforcement that can be just as effective if used with proper attention and consistency. but again, the issue with spanking specifically rests entirely in simple moral concerns about the use of physical force against a child.
This is a very good point, especially:
the issue with spanking specifically rests entirely in simple moral concerns about the use of physical force against a child.
But a child can be broken mentally in many ways, and a quick slap on the butt is usually (keyword) one of the lesser ones. For me, yelling was FAR more traumatizing than any spanking.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2016, 11:30:50 PM by BluetoothBoy »

gonna re-post this since it's more relevant now and it helps to be refreshed on this stuff in this kind of discussion
some brief relevant reading:
http://bcotb.com/the-difference-between-positivenegative-reinforcement-and-positivenegative-punishment/

you're describing specifically positive punishment. there are other ways to encourage or discourage behaviour

I might consider this to be a bit more viable if you were talking about the punishment of a reasonable adult, but we're talking kids here, and let's be honest, none of them are going to want to be punished in any fashion.
then you do the punishment that wouldn't be a literal forgetin crime on someone older

Here's the big difference between "abuse" and "spanking." It's when you draw a clear line between that which, on a physical level, inflicts discomfort versus harm, and on a mental level, causes trauma versus teaching.